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"Government Motors" returns to top of world's auto sales

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Sure it is.

    Heck, you had one political party that screeched that anyone who didn't wear a flag pin was unpatriotic. Yet, they weren't very willing to pay more in taxes to support the war that they started, and to give the soldiers the army they needed instead of the army they got.
  2. waterytart

    waterytart Active Member

    You go to war with the flag pins you have.
  3. SoCalDude

    SoCalDude Active Member

    Funny story from a family vacation. My wife is English and we went with her family to England in 1999. At the rental car office, my father-in-law was given a choice of a Hyundai or a Mercedes.
    "I want no part of a bloody Hyundai," he said, and took the Mercedes.
    And the last new car he bought a few years ago? A "bloody" Hyundai.
  4. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Just another failed exercise in Uberclass union busting.

    Charming how the opening salvo of Willard-Mitt's plan for dismantling Detroit included busting UAW wages down to Japanese levels and walking away from retiree obligations.

    10 cents a day and a cup of rotten rice

    So the 1% won't take a haircut
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    That is insane. Lending someone money always entails risk that you won't be paid back. But that presupposes that the Federal government isn't going to step into the transaction with public money and decide based on political cronyism who gets favored treatment and who doesn't!

    Taxpayer money should never have come anywhere near the situation, but once it did, they not only put us all on the hook for tens of billions of dollars of debt, they threw bankruptcy rules out the window. If GM had gone bankrupt, in order, secured debt holders would have been paid back first (the banks), followed by unsecured debt holders (bond holders), followed by stockholders IF there was anything left.

    GM had assets to make good on its debts. So if you had made a risk calculation and bought unsecured debt, you certainly could have made an accurate risk calculation -- and then gotten screwed by your own government, which arbitrarily changed the rules on you!

    What they got in return, rather than the money they were owed, was a small inequitable amount of equity in the new company. They made out worse, because their government screwed them.

    The responses to my earlier post just make me shake my head. If GM had gone bankrupt, the company wouldn't have stopped operating. The administration sold what it was doing on a deliberate lie. Bankrupt companies rarely just shut their doors. Courts actually keep any parts that are operating profitably up and running, because that is an asset.

    What really happened is that the government swooped in and ignored all property rights protections that are supposed to be guaranteed in America, and one VERY UNFAIR outcome it made happen was the screwing of bondholders (and stockholders to a lesser extent) by having their wealth stolen out from under them.

    What makes me sad is that a lot of people don't understand how this wasn't a stabilizing event. It deeply indebted us at a time when can ill afford more debt, for one thing. But probably even more importantly, it made corporate investment in this country even riskier, because it created an uncertain and unlevel playing field by establishing a precedent of the government being able to arbitrarily step into private property situations and screw some people out of their rights.
  6. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    you betcha professor.

  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Professor? That would make you Gilligan.
  8. dixiehack

    dixiehack Well-Known Member

    Dibs on Mary Ann.

    I didn't hear much screaming about "unfair" when it was the investment banks with their hands out.
  9. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    That's worth a chuckle.

    Speaking of which, and in a totally unrelated matter ... the Skipper!

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  10. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Seriously, as the only relatively sane and able-bodied adult male on the island, the Professor should have been barely able to walk.

    Gilligan wouldn't have known how, Thurston would have forgotten and the Skipper would last about 17 seconds with Ginger.
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    For what it is worth, nearly every auto manufacturer announcing sales were up in January. GM announced that sales were down more than 6 percent.


    What a disaster. Shareholders and bondholders had their wealth stolen out from under them, and of course our Federal government has no clue how to run a profitable business.

    In particular, the Chevy Volt has been a mess -- we have taxpayer-funded business producing cars that politicians love, but for which there is no market.

    Last month, Audi's president of North America called the Volt "a car for idiots," because it competes with a Toyota Corolla, but sells at a $15,000 premium.

    I realize he is married to diesel, but he's not wrong. The car has an MSRP of $40,000, and taxpayers are forced to subsidize people who buy them, so each purchase ads $7,500 to our national debt (after the tax credit it costs around $32,500).

    But it's much worse that that. An analyst at the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, which focuses on Michigan, added up all the state and Federal incentives that have gone into the components of the Volt, and came up with the figure of each car costing taxpayers up to a quarter of a million dollars (based on the 6,000 cars they have sold).
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  12. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Ragu, stockholders and bondholders were lucky to get a nickel. GM was in bankruptcy. They lost their wealth because that's what happens in bankruptcy. GM is a smaller and last quarter anyway, profitable enterprise. That's how bankruptcy is supposed to work.
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