"Government Motors" returns to top of world's auto sales

da man · Jan 21, 2012

BrianGriffin said:

bigpern23 said:

Bob Cook said:

Over/under on Obama campaign appearances at Midwest auto plants: eleventy billion.

Also, without a bailout the automakers wouldn't have lived to see this great market opportunity: the average age of cars on the road is now a record 10.8 years.

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-aging-autos-20120117,0,5068209.story
Click to expand...

I think that's why you see Hyundai offering 10-year-warranties.
Click to expand...

Hyundai and Kia. I've seen interesting comparisons between where the Korean companies are now and where the Japanese companies were in the late 80s. They have a niche in the market for having inexpensive vehicles and now they are graduating to where they are selling because they give you better vehicles for the money.

In other words, where one might have bought a Kia Sephia in 1999 because it was the only new car out there under $10k (or however cheap it was), now you're going to consider a Kia Sorrento because you can get 30 mpg, 3 rows of seats, a decent interior, pretty good options, competitive performance and a 10-year warranty for about $5k less than a Ford Explorer and $10k less than a Honda Pilot or Toyota Highlander.

In other words, it's not JUST cheaper. It's less expensive for a COMPARABLE vehicle.

No, I'm not a paid Kia spokesman, ha. I'm just a potential buyer and I noticed that about Kia. Same thing with Hyundai. The finishes on Hyundais are much nicer than they were five years ago to the point where I don't necessarily think of the Toyota or Honda as superior any more. But Hyundai is still much less expensive.
Click to expand...

Just FYI, I believe Hyundai and Kia are produced by the same company.

Azrael · Jan 21, 2012

Why can't Wall Street be more patriotic?

Ben_Hecht · Jan 21, 2012

Versatile said:

BrianGriffin said:

bigpern23 said:

Bob Cook said:

Over/under on Obama campaign appearances at Midwest auto plants: eleventy billion.

Also, without a bailout the automakers wouldn't have lived to see this great market opportunity: the average age of cars on the road is now a record 10.8 years.

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-aging-autos-20120117,0,5068209.story
Click to expand...

I think that's why you see Hyundai offering 10-year-warranties.
Click to expand...

Hyundai and Kia. I've seen interesting comparisons between where the Korean companies are now and where the Japanese companies were in the late 80s. They have a niche in the market for having inexpensive vehicles and now they are graduating to where they are selling because they give you better vehicles for the money.

In other words, where one might have bought a Kia Sephia in 1999 because it was the only new car out there under $10k (or however cheap it was), now you're going to consider a Kia Sorrento because you can get 30 mpg, 3 rows of seats, a decent interior, pretty good options, competitive performance and a 10-year warranty for about $5k less than a Ford Explorer and $10k less than a Honda Pilot or Toyota Highlander.

In other words, it's not JUST cheaper. It's less expensive for a COMPARABLE vehicle.

No, I'm not a paid Kia spokesman, ha. I'm just a potential buyer and I noticed that about Kia. Same thing with Hyundai. The finishes on Hyundais are much nicer than they were five years ago to the point where I don't necessarily think of the Toyota or Honda as superior any more. But Hyundai is still much less expensive.
Click to expand...

You're hired!
Click to expand...

Hyundai is so obviously the value king, now, it's not even funny.

Ben_Hecht · Jan 21, 2012

Starman said:

Yah yah it would have been better if the whole industry had gone down in flames and taken 20% of the economy with it. Tell us all about it, professor.
Click to expand...

(Endless Andrew Mellon / Willard Romney quotes about liquidating everything, and letting the venture-capitalists pick the bones, here).

Azrael · Jan 21, 2012

Why does Wall Street hate America?

Baron Scicluna · Jan 21, 2012

Azrael said:

Why can't Wall Street be more patriotic?
Click to expand...

"SHARED SACRIFICE!!!"

Funny how last summer, you heard Republicans screeching that little slogan in Wisconsin and Ohio and other places to make the public worker making $40K a year give up more in collective bargaining and health insurance rates. But when Obama and the Dems started using that term for Wall Street, suddenly it became an attack on the whole capitalistic system.

Boom_70 · Jan 21, 2012

Baron Scicluna said:

Azrael said:

Why can't Wall Street be more patriotic?
Click to expand...

"SHARED SACRIFICE!!!"

Funny how last summer, you heard Republicans screeching that little slogan in Wisconsin and Ohio and other places to make the public worker making $40K a year give up more in collective bargaining and health insurance rates. But when Obama and the Dems started using that term for Wall Street, suddenly it became an attack on the whole capitalistic system.
Click to expand...

One has nothing to do with the other.

Ben_Hecht · Jan 21, 2012

:

Azrael · Jan 21, 2012

Wall Street should be doing everything it can to sell shares in GM. Like a WWII bond drive.

YankeeFan · Jan 21, 2012

The Big Ragu said:

The GM bailout will cost American taxpayers $23.6 billion, according to the Treasury department (their original estimate was $14.33 billion, but it was based on an unrealistic stock price estimate, and they finally revised it in November). It will actually cost taxpayers more than $23.6 billion, because our government runs at a deficit, so that figure is monetized debt that we are going to be paying interest on for years to come.

How wonderful that GM is selling cars that are being forceably subsidized by all of us.
Click to expand...

The other thing is, did GM fix its long term problems?

In a traditional bankruptcy, GM could have lined up financing ahead of time, and gotten rid of some of the terrible contracts they're locked into. They could have gotten out from under the healthcare & pension costs that are killing them.

Also, people are forgetting that some of the biggest objections were raised over the fact that debt holders got screwed in this deal, and the unions got bailed out. That's not how it's supposed to work.

BrianGriffin · Jan 21, 2012

Versatile said:

BrianGriffin said:

bigpern23 said:

Bob Cook said:

Over/under on Obama campaign appearances at Midwest auto plants: eleventy billion.

Also, without a bailout the automakers wouldn't have lived to see this great market opportunity: the average age of cars on the road is now a record 10.8 years.

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-aging-autos-20120117,0,5068209.story
Click to expand...

I think that's why you see Hyundai offering 10-year-warranties.
Click to expand...

Hyundai and Kia. I've seen interesting comparisons between where the Korean companies are now and where the Japanese companies were in the late 80s. They have a niche in the market for having inexpensive vehicles and now they are graduating to where they are selling because they give you better vehicles for the money.

In other words, where one might have bought a Kia Sephia in 1999 because it was the only new car out there under $10k (or however cheap it was), now you're going to consider a Kia Sorrento because you can get 30 mpg, 3 rows of seats, a decent interior, pretty good options, competitive performance and a 10-year warranty for about $5k less than a Ford Explorer and $10k less than a Honda Pilot or Toyota Highlander.

In other words, it's not JUST cheaper. It's less expensive for a COMPARABLE vehicle.

No, I'm not a paid Kia spokesman, ha. I'm just a potential buyer and I noticed that about Kia. Same thing with Hyundai. The finishes on Hyundais are much nicer than they were five years ago to the point where I don't necessarily think of the Toyota or Honda as superior any more. But Hyundai is still much less expensive.
Click to expand...

You're hired!
Click to expand...

If Kia WANTED to hire me as a spokesman, I'd be glad to take their money though...

LongTimeListener · Jan 21, 2012

YankeeFan said:

The Big Ragu said:

The GM bailout will cost American taxpayers $23.6 billion, according to the Treasury department (their original estimate was $14.33 billion, but it was based on an unrealistic stock price estimate, and they finally revised it in November). It will actually cost taxpayers more than $23.6 billion, because our government runs at a deficit, so that figure is monetized debt that we are going to be paying interest on for years to come.

How wonderful that GM is selling cars that are being forceably subsidized by all of us.
Click to expand...

The other thing is, did GM fix its long term problems?

In a traditional bankruptcy, GM could have lined up financing ahead of time, and gotten rid of some of the terrible contracts they're locked into. They could have gotten out from under the healthcare & pension costs that are killing them.

Also, people are forgetting that some of the biggest objections were raised over the fact that debt holders got screwed in this deal, and the unions got bailed out. That's not how it's supposed to work.
Click to expand...

Debt-holders absolutely can (and should) get screwed in the deal. The interest rate on bonds denotes the risk. Shouldn't bondholders be held to that "risk" that we are told they so willingly take on?

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"Government Motors" returns to top of world's auto sales

da man Well-Known Member

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"Government Motors" returns to top of world's auto sales

da man Well-Known Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

Ben_Hecht Active Member

Ben_Hecht Active Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

Boom_70 Well-Known Member

Ben_Hecht Active Member

Azrael Well-Known Member

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