1. Welcome to SportsJournalists.com, a friendly forum for discussing all things sports and journalism.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register for a free account to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.
    • Fewer ads.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Gordon Beckham: 'I think the Hall needs to be numbers-driven'

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    OK, Beckham is only one of many players and coaches weighing in on the following question: "Should reputation and 'fame' play a meaningful role in Hall of Fame voting, or should it be based almost entirely on statistics?"


    This same question gets tossed around a lot in these parts, with some arguing some form of, "It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of OPS+."

    There are some really interesting responses in the piece. Kevin Frandsen says it's "bullshit" that Lee Smith isn't in the Hall. Wally Joyner advocates for Dale Murphy. (Yay! Two more future HOF threads for here!)

    Billy Hatcher says it should be "entirely by the numbers." Glen Perkins officially becomes a turncoat in his own city by saying that Kirby Puckett's election was based upon reputation, hinting that he had neither the career numbers nor the peak to merit election. A lot of guys bring up postseason performance as an X-factor.
  2. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    Andrew Albers of the Twins is the first pitcher in 47 years to throw 8+ of scoreless ball in his first 2 MLB starts.

    He might be ready for the Hall of Fame.
  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    For the record, since some (like Versatile) have be pegged as a 100 percent stats WARrior:

    I think it should be mostly career numbers-driven, though peak matters, as does postseason performance. I think Curt Schilling should be a Hall of Famer, for example.
  4. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    And Yankees fans.
  5. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    A strongly negative reputation is going to have an impact, and everyone knows it.

    If some borderline HOFer makes it because he was a great guy, I dunno, I think we'll all fuckin live. But it's baseball, so somebody on the one side or the other of the stat debate has to be bitching about something.
  6. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    Which players do you think have been impacted positively or negatively because of their popularity or lack of it?

    Ozzie Smith? Kirby Puckett? I think both are HOF worthy, but I was surprised how easily both got in.

    I don't think there are a ton of examples, in part when hugely popular players like Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly and Dwight Evans haven't gotten in.
  7. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    Has there ever been an advanced stat ranking of baseball HOFers? That would be interesting.
  8. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Phil Rizzuto and Ron Santo, although I'm not sure the Vet Committee is exactly a parallel here. I would say Sandberg got in easier than he probably should have.

    As for assholishness keeping a guy out, Dick always cites Albert Belle and I think that's at least somewhat true.
  9. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    I think more than reputation on Puckett was the way his career ended.

    A guy coming off a 23 Hr, 99 RBI, 39 double season with a slash line of .314/.379/.515 was hitting .344 the following spring training, wakes up with a vision issue that ends his career. I think a lot of voters took into account the potential continued success halted by that injury.
  10. albert77

    albert77 Well-Known Member

    If I had a HOF vote, I'd like to be able to consider the whole player, not just his numbers. I'd probably break it down thus: 60% career statistics; 15% peak of performance (how long and how high); 15% postseason success or lack thereof; 5% reputation; 5% personality.

    I think you have to weigh the numbers heavily, but there have been a lot of average players who hung around and hung around until they finally reached some milestones.

    I had this argument with my brother when Craig Biggio retired. He's a big 'Stros fan (poor fella), and he argued strenuously that Biggio was close to a first-ballot Hall of Famer. I thought at the time he was borderline at best, but he got 68% in his first year of eligibility, so it looks like my brother was pretty close.

    The point is, however, Biggio really wasn't anything special. Never an MVP, not much of a postseason career, maybe a Gold Glove or three. But he played 20 years, got to 3,000 hits, had some decent overall numbers, had a solid peak, was known as a stand-up guy and was loved by the fans in Houston. Add it all up and he's going to the Hall of Fame, maybe as early as next year.
  11. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    Who are these averages guys who get in?
  12. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    Unless you're Jim Rice, in which case enough people convinced themselves he was a HOFer so they weren't accused of not voting for a guy who was (and remains) a complete asshole.

    Meanwhile, Dave Parker was 150x the player Rice was and has a ring but stays out b/c of the negative rep associated with the Pittsburgh drug trials,
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page