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Good Jayson Stark column

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dan Rydell, Sep 7, 2007.

  1. Dan Rydell

    Dan Rydell Guest

    On that crazy save stat:

  2. GB-Hack

    GB-Hack Active Member

    It's an interesting proposal, and I'd like to see it in action. Maybe they could test it in the minors next season to see how it works?
  3. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    I like the Wes Littleton rule (no matter how many innings a reliever pitches to finish a game, the lead must be no more than three runs when he enters the game for it to be a save).

    I also agree that adding the "stop" is a better idea than further revising the save rule, simply because there is too much history of statkeeping to toss out.
  4. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    Save is irrelevant? Welcome to 15 years ago, Jayson Stark.
  5. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    Not to the drones that are MLB managers.
  6. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    Yeah, really. You spend 10s or hundreds of millions of dollars to try to win games and championships, but refuse to leverage your bullpen to allow your best reliever to work the highest impact inning, whether its the 7th, 8th or 9th. All in the name of the "save".
  7. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    That reminds me of my one problem with Stark's column -- his use of the example of Borowski and Betancourt in the Indians' bullpen. He is basing a point on something of an aberration. I'm trying to think. Where are all these situations where the closer is not the team's best reliever?

    Even in that one Cleveland, Betancourt has not shown that he can handle the pressure of closing out games in the past, so he is kept in a role where he is more comfortable and successful.

    Carlos Marmol is the best reliever in the Cubs' bullpen, but how much of that is protecting a young pitcher from a role he may not be ready for yet? Todd Jones probably shouldn't have had a closer's job ahead of Rodney and Zumaya in Detroit, but Zumaya was pretty bad early in the year and both of the Tigers' other options got hurt, so Jones kept the role.

    Is there anybody else I'm missing? And please, don't try to tell me about Neshek over Joe Nathan for the Twins. Nathan has been a rock for a while now and I know I'd trust him more than Neshek any day.

    Look at some of the other closers who might not be considered trustworthy. Al Reyes was the best of a horrible bullpen in Tampa for most of the season. David Weathers has been the only reliable reliever for the Reds. Matt Capps took over as the closer in Pittsburgh by outpitching the guy who opened the season with the job, Salamon Torres.
  8. Shaggy

    Shaggy Guest

    For a while this summer, Octavio Dotel was the shaky closer behind solid setup man Joakim Soria in the Royals' pen.

    Mike Gonzalez was setting up a shaky Bob Wickman before he got hurt.
  9. Shaggy

    Shaggy Guest

    I say keep the save rule as is, but take out the ridiculous "three effective innings" save that made a mockery of the whole stat in the 30-3 game.

    But Stark is right: It is one of the only statistics that alters the strategy of managers. I've never understood that.
  10. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Soria slumped quite a bit right before Dotel returned from the DL. And as a rookie, Rule V pick, he obviously had no track record. Soria got it back together setting up Dotel, which is part of why Dotel was traded.

    Wickman was very good for the Braves last year. Gonzalez was better in 2006, but he finished the year on the DL. He was also terrible in Spring Training, starting rumors about his elbow still hurting...which ended up being true.
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