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Giuliani -- Threat or Menace

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Fenian_Bastard, Dec 6, 2006.

  1. Webster

    Webster Well-Known Member

    Ragu -- Koch was a pure machine politician. Not that he was dirty -- I think that he cared about the power more than the bucks. He continued some of the positive work that Beame had done, but he was a go with the flow guy. He'd pick his fights on occassion, but only with those who already didn't have his support (like the UFT). He'd rather issue foreign policy statements than worry about why the garbage wasn't being picked up.
  2. HejiraHenry

    HejiraHenry Well-Known Member

    Well, consider the source.
  3. If you allow the police to do whatever they want, whenever they want, to anybody they want (as long as it isn't you or anybody you know), and if you put in charge of these police first an incompetent crony, and then a corrupt and incompetent crony, you will get a safer place to live. You won't have the United States of America, but, what the hell, the Dorismond and Diallo families don't live next door to us.
    The man is an authoritarian bully, personally and professionally. I don't want him anywhere near the Executive branch of the federal government, given the seven years we've just had.
    And, Ragu? There's an awful lot in that piece that isn't gainsaid by anyone that I'm aware of. Giuliani was abominable to his family, worse to anyone who disagreed with him, and was, as Jimmy Breslin said, a little man in search of a balcony.
  4. spnited

    spnited Active Member

    I agree, Ragu, that the city is a lot safer now than it was pre-Rudy and I like that thought. I also agree that was not a very well-writeen piece.
    But there is no denying that Rudy is a bully, that he will step on anyone to get his way, that he condoned -- maybe even encouraged -- an atmosphere of police brutality under the guise of cleaning up the city and didn;lt care if he and his henchmen trampled on peoples rights.
    Yeah, you have to be a jerk to smoke a joint in public, but you shouldn't get a beat down from the cops because you did.. and you shouldn't get shot 41 times because you looked like somebody the cops were looking for...and you shouldn't get sodomized by a broom handle after being beaten down in the squad car...

    And don't forget, after 9/11, "America's Mayor" wanted to waive the NYC term limits law so he could stay in office "to finish the job of rebulding the city" after the attacks.
  5. Duane Postum

    Duane Postum Member

    I started reading that and the juvenile tone stopped me from going further.
  6. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    At any moment the Smartest Guy in the Room, Chris L will be here to scold you for calling Rudy a bully and demanding at least a dozen examples to prove it.
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    That article uses Diallo and Dorismond as its biggest indictment of Giuliani. And I'll accept that... if you are willing to hold the cop who fired 50 rounds last week, killing the unarmed guy about to get married, as an indictment of the job Mayor Bloomberg is doing. I can show you horrible incidences of police misconduct under every mayor, equal to or worse than Diallo. But since Giuliani brought law and order to a place that was out of control, when you had police misconduct, it got greater and longer play. And the hyperbole machine turned Giuliani into Hitler. To me, a real indictment of Giuliani would be if you had any evidence that Giuliani condoned what those cops did to Diallo, if his police commissioner was putting the force up to that kind of illegal behavior, or if Giuliani defended or tried to prevent those cops from being brought to justice. None of those things are true.

    If you don't like Giuliani because he's an asshole who dumped his wife and he has a bulldozer personality, you're entitled. Those things are true. It's hardly news, by the way. But I've seen you shrug off the personal foibles of the politicos you like, so I know those kinds of things only matter to you selectively.
  8. Mighty_Wingman

    Mighty_Wingman Active Member

  9. Pastor

    Pastor Active Member

    Ragu, in my opinion, it was the attacks on the First Amendmant that was most prevalent. The arrest of the man that had people throw fake elephant dung at a poster, the threat to close a museum, and the limitation of protestings (which the article hardly touched on) that made the better case. The author could have done a better job comparing those types of actions to the Patriot Act or the Illegal Wire tapping positing a what-if scenario.
  10. Mighty_Wingman

    Mighty_Wingman Active Member

    Yeah, but since the vast majority of voters didn't care about Giuliani's threats against the museum and don't appear to care about the Patriot Act, that wouldn't have been as effective as an article about how Rudy's a jerk.
  11. Personal foibles?
    Trying to get your wife and children evicted from their home so you can move your (fourth) mistress in? Pulling their security detail out of spite?Announcing your divorce at a press conference before you tell your wife? Ponying up eight million so she wouldn;t trot the whole sorry mess out in court?
    Personal foibles?
    And it's Diallo AND Dorismond -- whose juvenile record Rudy smeared all over the news, even claiming that Dorismod "wasn't an altar boy," when he, in fact, was -- AND Louima. It was about a hundred other cowboy incidents around the city that never came to anyone dying. And it's a deliberate and vengeful assault on the police command structure in the form of cronies so corrupt that one of them was banging his own mistress in an apartment overlooking Ground Zero that was supposed to be a place of rest for the rescue workers there.
    NYC may have had other bad mayors. But this one was bad in a way that makes him scary bad to be let anywhere near the Department of Justice. That he was as big a ghoul in his personal life as he was is only incidental to that. I would like my Constitution back. please, and he wouldn't recognize it if it fell on his head.
  12. Pastor

    Pastor Active Member

    No disagreement there.

    I may be in agreement with the author on Rudy being a "jerkbag," but I just wish that it was littered less with the actual invective and instead with more details about why the invective is necessary.
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