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From "Readers React" in the NYT today

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Yes and no.

    I don't think they are inherently inalienable. In other words, I don't think that they come from the sky or from Jesus.

    I think that they are "inalienable" in the sense that a functioning society must incorporate those rights in some form in order to function in what I would consider a just manner. But not because they come from the sky.
     
  2. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    If we're talking about the Declaration - whence arises "unalienable" - rights clearly do fall from the sky.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
     
  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    That is indeed what it says.

    I disagree with them.
     
  4. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    First Amendment rights are not absolute, but any [governmental] infringement is subject to "strict scrutiny" which means there must be a "compelling state interest" to justify the infringement.

    (That basically is your Cliff Notes version on Constitution Law. If you weave that analysis multiple times into your 4 pg essay Should get you at least a C.)
     
  5. Stitch

    Stitch Active Member

    How many Wikipedia sources do I need to bump that to a B?
     
  6. ColdCat

    ColdCat Well-Known Member

    the trouble is if you see rights as being handed down by a deity, can you then claim that only followers of that deity are accorded those rights? The framers clearly did not think so, but I fear a certain political faction in this country today just might.
     
  7. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Could maybe escape on a technicality ... "that they are endowed by their Creator"
     
  8. Greenhorn

    Greenhorn Active Member

    Of course rights are granted by governments. I don't have the right to vote in Sweden.
     
  9. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    That idea is counter to the philosophical charter of the U.S.
     
  10. Stitch

    Stitch Active Member

    Greenhorn's argument is off base, but touches on a topic I am exploring regarding labor mobility and immigration. Do we have the unalienable right to live in whatever country we choose to in order to make a living? Why are there still states as we define them, instead of having regions where all residents can vote for their representatives. Europe is heading that way and I expect Europe to be modeled on the U.S. in the next 20-25 years where national citizenship does not matter and only European citizenship does, so if you are German but live in the U.K., you can vote in the U.K. instead of Germany.
     
  11. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    It would be interesting to see how federalism developed in such a situation. As hot as the issue of states' rights are here, it would be 1,000,000 times hotter in Europe.
     
  12. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Some (including me) would argue that "Europe" as a polity (rather than simply a geographic region) does not exist.
     
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