Fred McGriff: Hall of Famer?

You are too insufferable for words.

 

Sorry folks. I left off the link. Here it is.

http://www.sportsjournalists.com/forum/threads/96834/

Yes, I'm sure having your little misstep on display for all is insufferable for you. Let me remind you that YOU are the one who dragged the discussion over to this thread. Not me.

 

Agreed. PED users are not only using illegal substances that threaten their health, they are cheating.

 

With ya there!

 

And perhaps being the fastest-working pitcher ever. Especially when he was the Cardinals' lefty relief specialist under Herzog. Dude would take about half the time between pitches that it takes BYH to...oh, never mind.

 

The whole thing is becoming a sham. How are you going to compare numbers from guys from the steroid era -- any of them -- to guys who played at different times? It seems you would almost need two wholly different sets of criteria, because I don't know how we'll ever be able to separate those who used from those who did not.

 

McGriff is an extremely borderline case. He'll make it eventually as a Veterans Committee guy.

McGriff has that one season — 1993 — as the guy who single-handedly changed one of the best division races ever. he did have six top 10 mvp finishes, including five straight from 1989-93.

He has five all-star appearances, but if you wanna play the steroid game you can say he was "cheated" out of at least two more because he was left out because of known users.

In 1999 he should have been an All-Star. Among the picks were Canseco and Palmeiro. Of the first base/DH types, he has better numbers than half of the guys picked.

In 2001 it's much of the same. He had better numbers than the lone pick from his team, Greg Vaughn, and Giambi was one of the reserves.

So does a seven or eight time all-star mean more than five?

McGriff doesn't stand a chance in the voting because Bagwell is on the ballot ahead of him, as he should be, and depending on your position definition of Frank Thomas, who should also be ahead of him. No one, outside of pitcher, is going to vote for the third best guy on the ballot at a position.

 

I would vote for the Crime Dog. If he had roided, he probably would've hit 650 HRs.

Five other players that deserve Hall enshrinement:

1) Don Matttingly
2) Jorge Posada
3) Thurman Munson
4) Bernie Williams

You can't tell me there isn't an anti-Yankee bias.

 

Bernie yeah and won't make it.
Donnie Baseball and Posada serious consideration but no
Thurman. No way.
Just one man's opinion.

 

If I had to rate those chances, I'd actually have Bernie second behind Posada.

I don't understand the love Mattingly gets every year on the ballot, because he's almost never among the 10 best candidates. Yet he gets anywhere from 10 to 20 percent like clockwork.

 

I agree. Thurman Munson also should be ahead of Don Mattingly.

Jorge Posada ought to make it, though MankyJimy obviously is jumping the gun by complaining that he's not in before he's even eligible. Posada was an elite-level catcher for more than a decade, posting generally consistent numbers at the plate and being well-regarded as a signal-caller, pitcher-shrink and defensive backstop. His arm was never great, but it also wasn't inadequate.