Favre vs. Elway vs. Marino

Marino does have a shitty attitude. He still does. You can see that on TV whenever it's mentioned that he never won a ring or that most of his record now belong to Favre.

But no way was he hated by his teammates the way Favre was during the last half of his career. When all is said and done in Minnesota, he will have run himself off in three cities.

 

I'd go with Elway-Marino-Favre. It all depends on the scale that you're using. I give Elway the nod for his competitiveness and will to win. I give Marino the No. 2 spot for his high level of skill. I guess that leaves Favre in the No. 3 spot, but I'd take Steve Young or Warren Moon over Favre.

 

I'd take Young over Favre in a heartbeat. Moon? I don't know...

Elway carried several teams. Favre never had to carry a team.

 

agree on the consensus rank of elway, then marino, then favre, though marino ahead of favre put me through much back-and-forth debate.

issue not raised here that i'd like to get everyone's input on: certainly when discussing peyton's incredible passing numbers thus far, certainly they have been helped by playing at least eight games a year in a dome. i've always contended marino's numbers were aided by playing eight home games a year in (generally) terrific weather conditions for a passer.

how much should this be taken into account? i mean, elways played in freakin' denver, favre in green bay, n.y., and two years in minny's dome.

for pure passing numbers, isn't it inarguable that peyton and marino played in more ideal places for statistical compilation? that's part of the equation i rarely hear included in these discussions -- whereas folks often wonder how the numbers of joe d. and ted wiiliams would have been jacked up if they switched the stadiums they played in.

thoughts on the weather factor?

 

Marino was - and is - the best pure passer I've ever seen. All the things said about Elway being the master of the two-minute drill was secondary to Marino. Big ego? Sure ... all three are guilty of that.

Elway was smart enough to let a running game help him along eventually. Part of that was probably Mike Shanahan and the other part was someone sitting him down and having him realize that his way hasn't worked ... let's try something else.

Favre, as already mentioned, is destroying his legacy. Whatever has been said about Marino's ego is probably small potatoes compared to whatever damage is Favre has done and continues to do.

IMO, Marino-Favre-Elway.

 

Where can I put Kurt Warner on this?

I'll gladly put him after Joe Montana and John Elway. (I know, I know, it's only Favre-Elway-Marino)

Maybe if Holmgren had stayed longer - things would have been different. By 1997, the defense was a touch too old (as seen in the SB loss to Denver) and by 1998, too many young guys, too many old guys.

What happened when Holmgren left after 1998 was the organization allowed Favre to be coddled. Rhodes. Sherman (the worst violator). McCarthy allowed the coddling in 2006 but saw what a mess that was turning into and held Favre accountable. #4 wanted no part of that.

Also by 2000, most of Favre's "friends" were leaving or gone (Chmura, Frank Winters). He didn't associate with his teammates as much, coming and going as he pleased - very much a Dennis Quaid in "Any Given Sunday" existence, complete with the nagging wife.

I don't have an issue with all the coaches Favre had as, since 1999, he is a certified "coach killer" (Rhodes, Sherman, Mangini, Childress -- like YOU think Chilly will be back in 2011). Only McCarthy escaped his Black Widow-esque grip - the one smart thing Bubba McCarthy has done in his five years in Green Bay.

I tend to remember both Favre and Marino presiding over horrendous playoff losses - yes, Marino was often stymied by the AFC dynasties of his day (Denver, Buffalo) and Favre could never get past Dallas in his early years. However, much of the Favre 1998-present version hasn't had an NFC dynasty to contend with: he has been awful in the playoffs, often losing at Lambeau. The Giants-Packers 2007 NFC Championship game was on NFL Network the other night. Favre looked terrible the entire game, except for one pass to Driver for a TD.

The telling quote, from one of the Giants: "If Favre was trying to beat us, we weren't worried." Yikes.

Favre from 1995-1997 was an unbelievable stretch for the Packers. He was also graced with an incredible defense for that stretch (Reggie White, Sean Jones, Eugene Robinson, LeRoy Butler at the right age -- they didn't give up more than 21 points very often).

Elway had the supporting cast in 1996-1998 and rarely killed his team with picks. That makes him the clear #1 for m here, recognizing his gunslinger days of 1987 were long gone.

Marino had more promise (maybe it was playing in warm weather all those years - his stats were outstanding) but he was stuck with a coach just "cruising" for years (I got the sense Shula spent more time running his steakhouses by 1988 than actually crafting a running game).

There is a reason Marino didn't do any Isotoner Glove commercials after 1990 - his line and receivers got tired of his finger-pointing so they always returned his gloves.

 

I actually think the biggest travesty on that top 100 list is that Kurt Warner is on it.

Good player? Had a few great seasons. Played great in the postseason.

Putting him in the conversation with Marino, Elway and Favre is insane.

 

ah...Mizzou, one of our few differences.

Ask this - if you have ONE playoff game to win.

You lose: you are fired, shipped to a gulag or hired as Minnesota's football coach. The stakes are THAT high.

Who would you start:
- Elway
- Marino
- Favre

I'd start Kurt Warner just after Elway on that list. Ahead of Marino. Ahead of Favre.

Favre "had a few great seasons" as well. 1994-97, 2001, 2003, 2007, 2009. Played well in three post-seasons (had 10 fair to season-killing post-seasons).

It might be that we approach the 'greatest' from a different standpoint. Some people take a look at full body of work and, that's fine. I tend to take the "who do you choose for ONE game" test.

 

Who do I choose for one game?

Montana.

I don't disagree with your assessment of Warner in the playoffs. Favre was so God awful in the playoffs since the Super Bowl loss to the Broncos. Marino was never anything special in the playoffs either.

I'd take Young over Warner in the playoffs though.

 

I'd rather have Terrell Davis in the playoffs than a lot of Hall of Famers, but that doesn't mean he's getting into Canton.

 

Me too on Montana, naturally.

Warner comes in - almost like Terrell Davis, come to think of it - as a player who was NEVER the first choice. Not in St. Louis. Not in New York. Not in Arizona.

Warner will look better in the coming years. How did the Rams do when he left? Same with Arizona? They go to the playoffs much before him? Much after him?

He was a "playoff witch". Three SB appearances with awful franchises. I mean...AWFUL.

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