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'Fantastic Lies' 30 for 30

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Lugnuts, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. Lugnuts

    Lugnuts Well-Known Member

    Good, good, good. I hope you'll watch.

    I'd not been as eager to see this one as I have been some of the others because it was like ho hum I know this story inside and out-- discussed it here at sj for hours on end.

    But lemme tell ya-- once you start watching, you won't stop. There are new interviews-- players, parents-- there's new information I was not aware of...

    But the story's strength is in the fairness and thoroughness. It really is journalism at its best. It makes you scared for our society but hopeful for the future of journalism, oddly enough.

    And I know we have our legal eagles and 'true crime' gurus here-- it's perfect for you.

    Here's Variety's review:

    TV Review: ESPN’s ‘Fantastic Lies’

    Tomorrow night at 9 pm ET. Settle in, put your feet up.
  2. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    What was always the 2nd most disturbing ascpect of the story was the way the Duke Adminsitration and scores of professors threw their students to the wolves. a hundred or more of the most educated people in the country who, theoretically, have dedicated their lives to the higher education of young people just completely abandoned any semblance of fairness to exact political points and Advance personal agendas without regard to their responsibilities towards their students.
    THe most disturbing aspect was that after it was found that the Duke students were victims and wholly innocent of being anything but young students who play sports, there were no consequences to the individuals who degraded and humiliated their students.
  3. BDC99

    BDC99 Well-Known Member

    Will definitely be watching. Haven't followed too closely but sounds fascinating.
  4. Lugnuts

    Lugnuts Well-Known Member

    That aspect of the story is front and center in this film, but my personal opinion of the players differs from yours.

    I've always thought the players were a-holes. Seeing this film certainly didn't change that for me.

    But Good Lord, they didn't deserve that.
    Also, who these people are today is probably something far different.
  5. Armchair_QB

    Armchair_QB Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, people just like them litter upper administration on campuses all over America. We saw it at Missouri and are seeing it other places as well.
  6. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    Assholes? Grayson Allen and Christian Laetner could have been lax players?
    the people are today who vilified those students apparently haven't changed.

    Looking forward to the program
  7. franticscribe

    franticscribe Well-Known Member

    An interesting critique from William Cohan, who wrote the book The Price of Silence on which the documentary is based - or at least they bought the film rights to his book.

    Remembering (and Misremembering) the Duke Lacrosse Case

    I found it very interesting that while making the rounds to discuss the documentary on some of the local media this week that director Marina Zenovich lamented that Mike Nifong and Richard Broadhead declined to be interviewed and that the state prison would not allow Crystal Mangum to be interviewed. Then I read Cohan's critique and he mentions he gave her hours of his interviews with Nifong and Mangum, none of which made it in.

    I'll be really curious to see the final outcome and certainly he's not the first writer to take issue with how his book was translated to film, but I think I'll be a bit more skeptical for having read that first.
  8. Lugnuts

    Lugnuts Well-Known Member

    If I'm not mistaken, I believe William Cohan still thinks there might be something to Crystal Mangum's story. Toward the end of this article he writes, "We may never know what happened in that bathroom." .... Such as? There certainly wasn't any evidence that she was raped.

    It's possible Zenovich interviewed him, listened to the tapes he provided and decided he just wasn't credible. If that's the case, she may have acted responsibly.

    As a filmmaker, you'd have to be brave to depart from a book that your producer spent money to option.
  9. franticscribe

    franticscribe Well-Known Member

    I think he probably does think there is something to Mangum's story, but his book was interesting for its material from Nifong - if nothing else. I also find it hard to believe that in 20+ hours of audio of Nifong there's nothing worth including in the documentary. Nifong's never given any other interviews about the case and didn't say a whole lot during his state bar hearings. It's going to be damn difficult to give honest insight into what he was thinking, if they care to try to do that, rather than the conjecture that is commonly accepted.

    He also has a point about the narrative that the players attorneys have pushed for so long. The case is complex, and it doesn't boil down to a craven political decision to pursue the prosecution on the backs of Duke students just to get elected.
  10. Lugnuts

    Lugnuts Well-Known Member

    Interesting thoughts.

    I'm gonna watch it again with that in mind and will be looking forward to reading your opinion.
  11. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    Lugs, sneak preview for us -- any journalists' work (cough cough Selena Roberts) examined in detail?
  12. Albertville

    Albertville New Member

    Cohan's book was the subject of some scathing reviews (at Amazon and elsewhere); and likewise from various columnists (Dorothy Rabinowitz and others). Some have judged it ill-written, chock full of misstatements, factual errors, and innuendo. Maybe that was the reason it ultimately wasn't used by the filmmaker?
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