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Esquire's The War Against Youth

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Alma, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I don't want us to make this leap into territory where student loan debt is, normatively, a bad thing. It's a calculated risk. For the lower classes, its availability is a way that the United States prevents a permanent economic caste system to develop.
     
  2. dreunc1542

    dreunc1542 Active Member

    I'm glad I was able to pull myself up by my bootstraps and get a good education that I believe will serve me well into the future. The fact that I'm from an upper middle class family with two devoted parents has absolutely nothing to do with it. Why can't everyone else be like me?
     
  3. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

  4. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    Absolutely.

    And part of the problem is that by requiring a BA for all kinds of jobs that shouldn't need one, industries are fueling the notion that everyone needs a degree. I think trade schools are going to make a comeback and that it's a good thing (remember those Apex Tech & Wilford Beauty Academy commercials? We always wondered if they had a prom together).
     
  5. BitterYoungMatador2

    BitterYoungMatador2 Well-Known Member

    Like this one.
     
  6. lcjjdnh

    lcjjdnh Well-Known Member

    This is why the student debt question always stumps me. On one hand, we need to provide educational opportunities to those that can't afford it. On the other hand, it helps inflate the cost of tuition--when you subsidize something, you're only encouraging the price to go up.

    That said, I'm perplexed at the continually hand-wringing I see about the myriad reasons proposed for the rising cost of tuition. It seems many overlook the most obvious answer--the basics of supply and demand. What's troubling is not the eye-popping tuition figures, but that even at these levels, it's likely underpriced! The market at top-tier schools doesn't clear--supply provides the limiting constraint. Harvard, for instance, has an admissions rate of around 6%. It could easily raise tuition and maintain a full enrollment without any material impact on the quality of its incoming class.

    I don't see this trend as abating. Americans treat education as a status good. People don't want to get a good education--they want (or want their kids to get) an education that's considered better than others. People don't choose Harvard because they'll learn more than they would at Big State U--they choose Harvard because employers perceive students learn more at Harvard (or believe graduation from Harvard signals other qualities they covet). This leads to arms race among parent and school administrators to top the school next door.

    This undercuts one of the major justifications for having a market-based economy--prices serve no role as an information revealing mechanism. The market telling Harvard it's underpriced doesn't lead Harvard to create more seats--indeed, the majority of the value of a Harvard degree derives from the fact Harvard doesn't let in everyone willing to pay. Nor can an entrepreneur capitalize on Harvard's reluctance to admit more freshman. People want a degree from Harvard, not Gary's Roadside Edu-mart.

    This suggests only radical reform can stem the ever increasing rise of tuition rates. We need to reassess our assumptions about how our education system should function. Should free public education end after high school? Should our education system be so geography based (the importance of a "good" K-12 education system just leads to wasteless bidding in the real estate market)? Should spots in college be awarded on the basis of merit--maybe schools should award spots based on chance (which would, of course, reduce the signaling value of a degree from any given school)? Is education even a good that should be bought and sold? There's a risk this leads to another wealth-based form of signaling, but if we're serious about giving everyone an affordable college education, they're questions we can't ignore.
     
  7. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    It's funny, I know you're joking, but people really do believe this. It's a particularly popular idea among children of upper-middle-class and wealthy people. I guess it's just a defense mechanism so they don't have to acknowledge they were born on third base. That and a way to justify wanting to pay lower taxes. But we see it everywhere -- the stories about Roger Goodell's blue-collar existence as the son of a United States senator, and even Mittens saying he started at the "bottom rung" of his consulting firm and didn't have anything given to him.
     
  8. Stitch

    Stitch Active Member

    What is the goal of a college education? Is it to get a good job or to be educated? Most of us seem to value critical thinking, but this column by Clarence Page sums up how difficult that concept is to teach.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120327/OPINION03/203270318/1008/opinion01/Has-college-become-too-undemanding-undergraduates-

    During my undergraduate studies, it was a rare occurrence to get an assignment that involved more than summaries. In graduate school, the mindset changes to critical thinking, at least for my program. I don't know how it is for some programs, though.
     
  9. dreunc1542

    dreunc1542 Active Member

    I forgot to note that I'm a white man. Those things made it tough.
     
  10. BitterYoungMatador2

    BitterYoungMatador2 Well-Known Member

    Best friend from high school fits this mold. Upper middle class with two parents loaded with connections locally. He barely graduated high school and had to talk his way into college. Slogged through college and actually got decent grades once he hit business school. Never. did. One. Damn. Internship. not one. His first job out of college? Pharmaceutical rep. Count him as one who doesn't understand why people "just can't work harder."
     
  11. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    If you tell me you were further burdened by being a Christian, I'm going to start a charity fund-raiser for you.
     
  12. waterytart

    waterytart Active Member

    It gets worse. He's straight.
     
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