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ESPN Cancels Barstool Show

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Elliotte Friedman, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. typefitter

    typefitter Well-Known Member

    The notions of evolution, and forgiveness, and grace, and all of their intertwined possibilities, is a super interesting subject to explore. I wouldn't even know how to begin. I'm inclined to think Brett Kavanaugh is still a fucker, but what he's alleged to have done happened a very long time ago. Some murderers get shorter sentences and we presume them to be rehabilitated. Sometimes someone does something so heinous, they're never forgiven for it. What are those things? What separates the forgivable from the unforgiven? Can even former Nazis be redeemed? I have done some dumb things for which I hope I would be forgiven; I have, late in life, forgiven people for things I never would have forgiven in my youth; I still carry grudges over certain other things, even though I know they serve no purpose. I'm not sure forgiveness is always rational.

    I think one of things that makes forgiveness possible is a length of time served, and a demonstrated change in behaviour for the better. Barry P. says he's different than he was twelve years ago. I suspect he is. Is twelve years enough time to prove that he is?

    Has Dave Portnoy done too much, too late in his life, and in the face of much criticism, ever to be forgiven for what he's said and done?

    I feel like it's important to point out that I am not high right now.
  2. 3_Octave_Fart

    3_Octave_Fart Well-Known Member

    I forgive Daulerio, not that it matters.
    It sounds like he had a severe cocaine problem, and it was not a stretch even at the time to see the guy was on something.
    But if I were that young woman's father I would not forgive him or Craggs - ever - and wish the very worst things upon them and whatever souls they had left.
  3. typefitter

    typefitter Well-Known Member

    I believe I would be the same as that woman's father. I would wish death upon them. But one of the things I've learned, and am still learning, because change is hard: Forgiveness ultimately would help the father, if he hasn't forgiven them already. His anger does nothing to them. It hurts him and him alone.
    Double Down likes this.
  4. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    As a Christian, I’d say the only ones beyond the forgiveness of God are those who have been given over to sin. These are people who will never feel contrition, or even desire forgiveness, for it is not something they’re capable of feeling. I think there are many dictators who fit that bill.

    I also believe there are sins, or patterns of sin, that are very hard to come back from easily. I think of a Madoff, for example. You don’t wipe out all of what he did with an I’m sorry.

    But I’m also not surprised by the level of disgusting stuff people say - in this case, Barstool and Deadspin. Reading Portnoy’s little rant about why he doesn’t stay silent filled me with sadness, in a sense. So...because the guy worked hard and didn’t take a day off, because he had to eat shit all those years, what, he’s allowed rough edges? Because that’s the implication In my faith, Nobody’s entitled to their pride. To the extent you’re special, it’s because of what God did for you, not anything you did, and the minute you fool yourself on that you start traveling a dark path. Portnoy seems to have gone a long ways down the road in that regard.

    All his rage is right there in his justification. He thinks he’s earned everything he’s gotten, and damn right, he’s mad at anyone who he thinks may have been handed a thing. Heaven help the person who feels no grace. That’s where Portnoy seems to be.
    typefitter and Inky_Wretch like this.
  5. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    One of my issues with Leitch's piece is that some of it is just performance art. It reminds me, in a way, of him writing his "I'm sorry, Roger Ebert" piece after Chris' piece about Ebert came out in Esquire. Leitch had once received advice and encouragement from Ebert, then he later turned around and ripped Ebert for a few laughs, then he felt bad after he read Chris' piece, and instead of writing to Ebert to say he's sorry, he wrote to all the world as a piece of performance art. And people praised him!

    Yes, there is some cultural importance now to speaking up, but the fact that Will cannot mention AJ Dauliero's name (because they are still friends, and I presume Will still hopes AJ can turn his life around) he lets him skate for ushering in truly the worst era of Deadspin. Never forget that, in addition to the rape video and the outing, Dauliero went ahead and named Jen Sterger as the person Favre sent the dick picture to, breaking an off the record agreement, because it was too good for clicks. He said that in the story. Sterger was trying to make it in media back then, was going on interviews for sideline jobs at ESPN and Fox, and he basically ruined her career. For being a victim of Favre sending his junk to her, unsolicited. And no one gave a shit at the time, because she'd once appeared on the sidelines of FSU games in a low-cut top. Think that might play differently today if he did that? Will and Barry and others owe people like Jen and Holly Mangold and, yes, Peter King's daughter, an apology. Who cares what you write on the site? Write them, then see if they're ok with what you did.

    It's nice that Deadspin guys have matured, and no longer want that life. But guess what? That is like listening to Karl Rove lament the rise of Trumpism. You guys did that shit, yet to mock moderate GOP anti-Trumpers for the very same thing. You trafficked in it, you reveled in it, you used it as a weapon to yield against people you thought were lame. You lit the fire that became Barstool. Some of us were grinding along, trying to have normal careers, with mature editors happy to delete our offensive mistakes before they ever saw print, and you thought that path of maturity was lame.

    Portnoy is your Trump, Deadspin. Perhaps you can understand if you're not allowed to wash your hands of this so easily.
  6. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    That is simply not true. Portnoy does not follow from Deadspin. He was there before Deadspin and ran a very different business. He built a brand and a community around a website to get people to go to Barstool parties and buy merch. That was not what Deadspin did. Any similarities between the sites' humor and crass exploitation was simply a result of both being on the internet between 2006 and 2014.
  7. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    Cool story. But no. The same way that the GOP trafficked in garbage until the fever swamp took over the party, so does it follow the rise of guys like Portnoy, who were fed just enough “keep it real!” bullshit until they rose up to be the king.

    Portnoy would have been the ultimate Deadspin commenter. Hell at 41, I wonder if he was under a hidden handle. Would make a great Deadspin story.
  8. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    Barstool was created as a print rag years before Deadspin. You have no clue where Barstool came from or what it was doing if you think it was spawned or inspired by Deadspin.
  9. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    You are not smart enough to be having this conversation, apparently, since you seem to believe the comparison is literal and not that they shared a philosophy that Portnoy simply took to a much worse extreme. Leitch literally wrote in his essay that Deadspin helped spawn Barstool’s ethos.
    JC likes this.
  10. Just the facts ma am

    Just the facts ma am Well-Known Member

    Deadspin was a bunch of non-talented, privileged, white, prepboy types who were isolated from the real world and very immature. They blossomed in the NYC hipster milieu. They started off as the 100 keg club but ironically evolved into the PC, pearl clutching, liberal police.

    Barstool started as a working class, authentic, sports and bro culture site, started for the common man, by the common man. They have hired, with a few misses, talented satirists. They have tamed themselves down for mainstream advertisers (they parted with their resident porn star), but they remain largely true to their authentic origins.

    Barstool is a unconventional comedy/entertainment site. Think South Park.

    For those not familiar with Barstool Sports a couple of things.

    They are the only major sports/culture site that still allow anonymous, non-moderated (except for the n-word) comments in each blog except smokeshows. The top comments are overwhelmingly racist, commenting on woman as sex objects and for the last couple of years, Trumpians. So was ESPN back in the day.

    There is a reality show aspect of Barstool that requires you keep up with the kayfabe.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018
  11. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    1. Fuck you
    Two. Barstool's Blackout Parties and Smokeshows of the Day we're not inspired by Deadspin. Deadspin never did the Gamergate type harassment that Barstool does. The alt-right is as much of an inspiration for Barstool.
    C. Leitch doesn't know what he is talking about either. Barstool would be where it is with or without Deadspin.
    This is not some defense of Deadspin. It is an attempt to be accurate and to have people recognize Barstool was always a cesspool and to not believe it was the result of some comment section in a New York hipster sports website.
  12. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    Leitch taking credit for Barstool is just part of the apology as performances art. It isn't as grand a gesture if Barstool isn't part of his legacy.
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