Edgar Martinez - Hall of Famer?

I don't argue with grown men who watch professional wrestling.
So we're both content.

 

I agree with all of that. And I agree that Edgar did bring more than hits to the table, but only in the sense that he wasn't just a singles machine. He didn't bring more than the hit TOOL to the table. He stole three bases a year and didn't just play bad defense, but practically no defense at all. If you're really just a hitter, you need to be an absolute elite-level hitter to make the Hall. He was a very good hitter, but not good enough to overcome the fact that it's the entirety of his case.

And bringing football stats into the discussion is asinine.

 

Bringing the football into the discussion at all is asinine. Different sports. Different standards. Does not apply.

 

So you can't disprove any of the rest.

 

The question isn't whether Martinez was better than Jim Pressley in the early 1990s. The question is whether Edgar could have hit better than whomever was playing first base or the DH for the Mariners. Defense is a factor. The PCL was a hitter's league in the 1990s - there were a lot of parks at high elevation which raise batting average because the ball travels more and because pitchers have a harder time throwing breaking balls.

Harold Baines has more impressive offensive stats as a one-dimensional offensive player who has more hits playing in more difficult places to hit. Baines is not in the Hall of Fame.

 

So you admit that you've already made two asinine arguments on this thread.

I never said he wasn't a Hall of Famer. I'm on the fence. Playing so few games in the field hurts. Having decent, but not great, power numbers and no speed hurts. Never finishing higher than third in the MVP voting holds him back as well. And yes, the counting stats do damage his case.

It's the Hall of Fame. The standards are high and they should be. Hell, Jeff Bagwell isn't in yet and he has a much better case. Slightly lower on-base percentage (.418 to .408), but superior slugging percentage and OPS. More hits and 140 more home runs. One MVP Award. Two seasons with over 40 home runs and 30 steals. Also, Bagwell was a hell of a defensive first baseman.

If Bagwell isn't in, Martinez isn't even close.

 

You're the easiest out on the site.
Martinez's lack of speed has been mentioned a few times.
Would someone mind telling me who in the hell ever made stealing bases part of his job description?
He played- and excelled- in the glacial age of the stolen base.

 

Some of Martinez's contemporaries (and current or likely Hall of Famers):

Gary Sheffield, 253 steals
Barry Larkin, 379
Jeff Bagwell, 202
Alex Rodriguez, 307
Derek Jeter, 339
Craig Biggio, 414
Ken Griffey Jr. (who basically didn't run the second half of his career), 184
Albert Pujols, 84
Tony Gwynn, 319
Ivan Rodriguez, 127

Edgar Martinez had 49. 49!

Stolen bases not only weren't part of his job description, it's possible he didn't even know they existed.

Only a few guys that fucking slow will make the Hall from this era, and they're Jim Thome (20), Frank Thomas (32) and Mike Piazza (17). And guess what? They did have the counting stats, saber stats, awards, time in the field, etc. that Edgar Martinez didn't have. Give it up.

 

First, read the post by Uncle.Ruckus. He showed us why you really are "the easiest out on the site."

Two, apparently you post means you can't argue with every other point I made. The lack of speed was just one small part of my argument. Given that you grabbed so desperately on to that one, we can now assume that even you realize you can't argue the following things hurt Martinez:

Lack of games played in the field
Decent, but not great, power numbers
Lack of awards
Relatively low counting numbers for a Hall of Famer

Those are a lot of negatives. The lack of speed was just one of them. Now let's see you admit how badly you just got your tail kicked for once.

 

Every time Griffey Jr's name comes up, I think: He might have been the best ever.

His numbers, given how little he actually played the second half of his career, are staggering.

As to Martinez, no, but not a hell no. I wouldn't lose any sleep if he got in, but he's a no on my non-existent ballot.

 

I asked for an admission of failure, not a picture of you. Though that would explain a lot.