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Death by Pitch Count; From a Fav

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by qtlaw, Aug 26, 2008.

  1. BB Bobcat

    BB Bobcat Active Member

    Many of the old-timers who lament that pitchers today aren't what they used to be because they don't throw complete games are the same guys who insist that 500 homers doesn't mean what it used to be because the game has tilted so much toward hitters.

    Well, then doesn't it stand to reason that it's more difficult to pitch in the majors now than it was in 1960? I can't see who would argue with that. Doesn't it also stand to reason that 100 pitches in 2008 are more stressful than 100 pitches in 1960, and don't get you as far into a game?

    I'm sure there is an element of managers-protecting-their-butts, but to me the larger issue is that the game has changed so it's just not as easy to pitch a complete game as it used to be.
     
  2. Herbert Anchovy

    Herbert Anchovy Active Member

    What is the most (known) pitches someone has thrown in a game?

    I seem to remember Cone throwing over 160 for the Mets back in the day.
     
  3. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    Nolan Ryan said in one of Dan Patrick's otherwise dopey Q&As in SI a week or two ago that he once threw well over 200 pitches in a game. I'll see if I can find the Q&A archived and/or proof of that (before Bucky, at least :D).

    Edit one: Here's the piece...of course they manage to split this brief thing up into three parts. Hooray page hits! http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1144013/2/index.htm

    Edit two: Baseball-reference.com doesn't have pitch counts further back than 1988, but holy crap...check out Ryan's pitch counts in 1989:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=ryanno01&year=1989&t=p

    Made 32 starts at the age of 41 and threw 100 pitches 31 times. In the other start, he threw 99 pitches. He threw 130 or more pitches 16 times...including 10 times in his final 13 starts. (Pitch count was missing from one start, but he went 7 1/3 IP Sept. 18 so I imagine he exceeded 130 that time too)

    The most pitches? 162 on Sept. 12. At age 41. Damn. He was a fuckin stud.
     
  4. Herbert Anchovy

    Herbert Anchovy Active Member

    BYH, I would buy that. Ryan was his own starter, middle reliever, set-up man and closer. Somebody had a stat (cannot remember where this was) that during his 383-strikeout season, he carried so many one- or two- or three-run leads into the ninth inning.
     
  5. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    Oh, me too, believe me. I wasn't saying I didn't believe Ryan. It just sprung to mind b/c I'd recently read that SI.
     
  6. Herbert Anchovy

    Herbert Anchovy Active Member

    Great stuff.

    You guys are the shit.
     
  7. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    There's an article somewhere (baseballlibrary.com, maybe? I can't look it up because it crashes my computer at work) about Ryan's 235-pitch game in 1973. I want to say he went 15 innings, and the other pitcher (Tiant?) went 14.1.

    But somebody in the dugout actually counted pitches with one of those hand-held clickers and Ryan came out with 235. That's the most that's ever been confirmed, at least in the majors.

    Couldn't have been the only time he approached 200 that year, either.
     
  8. Hammer Pants

    Hammer Pants Active Member

    Maybe I'm wrong about this, but wasn't Tim Hudson's elbow giving him discomfort long before he said something and had it examined? Didn't James Andrews say there was evidence of a previous injury that he never had fixed? When Hudson pitched this season, he was usually outstanding, and who knows how long ago the problem started?

    Also, RA Dickey was a college All-American and first-round draft pick with a mid-90s fastball, but he never got to sign his contract because a physical just before he signed showed that he had NO UCL IN HIS PITCHING ELBOW! Dickey converted himself into a knuckleballer and returned to baseball, but still, you're telling me that Satchel Paige and other innings-eaters didn't have all kinds of crazy shit in their elbows and shoulders?

    I'm sure it's a million times easier to sit here on a keyboard and say people should pitch through pain, especially with so much money out there for athletes these days ... but isn't it possible to suck it up? If it's not a quality of life issue, and your team is in contention, why not try to pitch through it?
     
  9. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    Would LOVE to see the pitch counts in this one: http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SFN/SFN196307020.shtml

    Juan Marichal and Warren Spahn match zeroes for 15 innings, til Willie Mays goes deep in the bottom of the 16th to give the Giants what was not yet called a walk-off win. Alas, it only finished third on SportsCenter's top 10 plays that night. :D
     
  10. Moderator1

    Moderator1 Moderator Staff Member

    Someone else has to help with the details and I could be way wrong. But I believe Pelfrey was THIS close to becoming a Nat. Not part of the Church-Schneider/Milledge deal. Or maybe it was that and JimmyBow wouldn't give up the prospect the Mets wanted?
     
  11. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    One of the coolest games ever, Beej. Spahn was nearly twice Marichal's age.

    And I gotta believe, one of the coldest games, even in July. Can you imagine being one of the 15K to stick around the 'Stick for all 16 innings that night? Crazy.
     
  12. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    I thought Pelfrey was fairly close to untouchable. You have to figure the Twinkies would have liked him in the Santana deal. But I could be wrong.
     
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