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David Cone and Orel Hershiser

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Prediction: They will some day be Veterans Committee selections to the Hall of Fame.

    The low vote totals they got on the BBWAA ballot was criminal.

    I think that their careers will eventually be re-examined in light of the kind of careers starting pitchers have today. Hershiser had 204 wins. Cone had 194. Both had tremendous peaks. Hershiser had 51.5 WAR and 112 ERA+, which is pretty borderline for the HOF. Cone was 57.5 with a 121 ERA+. That's HOF stuff. And he got just 3.9 percent of the vote his only year on the ballot.

    Another criminally low total: Jerry Koosman, 0.9 percent in 1991.

    Was thinking about pitchers tonight while pondering Mark Buehrle's chances (he's about to log win No. 10 of the season tonight and 158 of his career).
  2. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    If there's more than a few voters who consider Curt Schilling to be a borderline HOFer, Mike Mussina is borderline at best, and it took Bert Blyleven almost 20 years to get in, then Orel Hershiser shouldn't wait by the phone on voting day.
    Hershiser was phenomenal in 1988, better than people remember in '85 (didn't realize he went 19-3 that year), and went 45-21 with average numbers otherwise with the Indians when they had perhaps the best 3-4-5 lineup combo of the last 20 years (Manny, Thome and Belle). Other than 1988, he was an all-star level pitcher a few times but doesn't pass the smell test for the HOF.

    Cone is a much more compelling case because of the perfect game, five world series rings (four of them with the Yankees dynasty), a Cy Young award and a surprisingly high strikeout total (2,668). His walk total (1,137 in 2,898 innings) is also pretty impressive. I could see him gaining support as the years go on, especially if voters can overlook the 194 wins.

    Buehrle? No way. Not yet. Other than one or two seasons he's been either a solid pitcher on a mediocre team or B+ at best. The perfect game and no-hitter are his best accomplishments, and if that gets you into Cooperstown then Hideo Nomo's translator will start writing his acceptance speech.
  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Cone is already off the ballot. Less than 5 percent support. Criminal.
  4. rpmmutant

    rpmmutant Member

    Hershiser, with his scoreless inning streak, has the equivalent of Joe DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak. And from 1985-88, he was the best pitcher in the National League. Only four years, but without him, the Dodgers don't win the World Series in '88. The Dodgers don't get past the Mets in the NLCS and probably don't even make the playoffs. His 1988 season was one of the greatest in the history of baseball.
    The pitcher I want to see in the Hall of Fame who probably won't ever make it is Jack Morris. He was probably the best pitcher in the decade of the 1980s, but is never in the discussion.
  5. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Mussina should be a stone cold lock, don't you think?
  6. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    I will agree with that. Not 100 percent sold that he's a hall of famer, but he definitely deserves to have his case heard.
    Always thought of him as a regular all-star, but didn't realize how good he was until just now when I looked up his credentials. The reputation he gained as a "hired gun" in the mid-90s probably hurt him some. He bounced around to a few teams at the deadline. Made him look like a bit of a journeyman when he was actually closer to an ace.
  7. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    His ERA is very bad and he's under 40 WAR. I'm surprised he gets as much support as he does, honestly. I understand he was lights out in his World Series starts, though.
  8. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    He probably should be, but I've heard other people say otherwise. There's enough debate that it might take a while.
  9. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Why do people keep bringing up Buehrle in Hall of Fame discussions? A very average pitcher at best. Not even close to being a Hall of Famer.
  10. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    Needs to wait his turn behind Schilling, just to name a contemporary.
  11. YGBFKM

    YGBFKM Guest

    Buehrle will never sniff the HOF, but over his career, he's been much better than average.
  12. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    He's better than you think. He has 46.2 WAR as we speak, should easily get to 200 wins, and is only 32 years old with no injury history whatsoever.

    I know what you're saying. ERA always around 3.80-4.00. No dominant seasons. Not a high-strikeout guy. Definitely doesn't feel like a HOFer. And, ultimately, probably not one. But definitely better than average.
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