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Congrats to Katherine Heigl on getting to leave the dumbest show on television

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Double Down, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. shotglass

    shotglass Guest

    That was a tad dismissive, wasn't it? ::)
     
  2. Pancamo

    Pancamo Active Member

    He probably doesn't run in that group but after leaving this show, nobody but reality tv is going hire him. He is a terrible actor.

    He should have spoke with Adriam Zmed and asked him about leaving a show before it dies.
     
  3. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    Lugs, know know I love you, yadda, yadda, yadda...

    But, I think the ultimate respect we can pay Shonda as a showrunner is to hold her to the same high standard we might hold Damon Lindelof, David E Kelley, Ken Olin, Michael Patrick King, Greg Daniels, Amy Sherman-Palladino, Tina Fey, John Wells, etc. It's great that she's probably opened some doors. And the show earns my scorn right now because it used to hold itself to a higher standard. Juggling egos is part of the job. The show was deservedly a monster hit because of its first two seasons. It is a monster hit now because of habit, and the network is clearly worried about it because they tried to blame Heigl and Washington for its problems, then tried to blame the fact that Shonda was stretched too thin with Private Practice and they made her focus on Greys (which oddly helped PP get better) and now they are blaming Ugly Betty for its massive decline in ratings.

    I still believe this is the show's main problem, which remains unaddressed.


    You said Shonda wrote some great stuff in the beginning. I'll concede that this style of writing worked for awhile. The "Code Black" Super Bowl episode? Very good. But here is the thing: David Simon used to talk about how on Homicide, the thing that people loved the most was when Pembleton would break a guy a guy down in the box and get him to confess. And the producers wanted him to write more episodes like that. So he and the rest of the staff did. And they asked for more. And he resisted, pointing out out that creatively, it was a stale approach. You can't just always run back to what some people want without it becoming a cliche. Rimes doesn't seem to understand that.

    We've had this exact debate/discussion multiple... times...and it's clear I'm never going to change the opinion of shotglass and spup, who obviously enjoy the show for different reasons than I once enjoyed it. That's ok. My wife still insists we watch it too. But Piotr nailed it in a previous thread. I watch now because I'm committed, for better or worse, but I am actively rooting for it ot be cancelled so I can stop watching it.

    My comment about "if you defend this, you're a fool" was less of a personal insult, and more frustration meant to inspire debate. I just don't see how anyone could believe this is the same show it was in Seasons 1 and 2.
     
  4. spup1122

    spup1122 New Member

    You're right Double Down. You probably won't change my mind, though you were close last season when Hahn/Callie became lovers. I don't watch television for real life or believable story lines. I watch for entertainment value. I watch to not have to think about anything but getting myself lost in the characters. When some characters leave, I'm happy. I never liked Hahn. I was fine with the way she left. I am tired of off-camera drama stories from Knight and Heigl. Congratulations to them for getting out of their contracts.

    And I don't know that it's the same show it was in seasons 1 and 2. I enjoyed both those seasons immensely and hated season 3. I absolutely couldn't stand to watch Izzy whine about how she had this check and she was but she wasn't going to cash it. I didn't care. I thought season 4 started to get better, and with the exception of the Denny/Izzy story line (which I could not stand), I think this season is considerably better.

    I am invested enough to care about what Izzy has. If the Denny/Izzy story line gave me anything, it was that. I want to know if what she has is deadly (obviously since she's leaving the show) and how the other characters will react, especially Karev who I used to hate.

    I think for me, it's similar to The Office. Every boss has a little Michael Scott in them, but nothing to that extreme. How many people are going to put a coworkers things into a vending machine, or put a cord onto a machine and force the person to climb a utility pole? They are believable story lines. They're incredibly funny and hook people, but they aren't believable. I'm not looking for believable. I'm looking for enjoyment and investment in characters.
     
  5. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    I know I've said this before, but it's not really about believability for me as much as it is about earning those moments of entertaiment (be they dramatic moments or funny moments) within what has already been established within that ficitonal universe.

    As stupid as Callie's decision to suddenly become a lesbian was, at least it was earned over the course of time (though barely) by establishing that she might be in love with Ericka, the person, and this would cause her to question her sexuality. But when you have Arizona walking up and saying, essentially, "Hey, we don't really know one another but I think you're a good doctor and, um, do you mind if I make out with you?" then that's just assinine.

    For what it's worth, I actually like Mark's character because he's the one doc on the show who doesn't take himself so seriously that I want to claw my eyes out when he has some sort of crisis.
     
  6. spup1122

    spup1122 New Member

    I think the moment with Arizona, while contrived, isn't that far for believable. I mean, men walk up to random women they don't know in bars all the time and make out. :)

    And actually, I do like Mark's character a lot. I think it is believable and entertaining. I laugh every time he hits on little Grey because when I worked for my dad, I hung out with guys who worked for him. Those guys told me I was forbidden fruit, which was why we were only friends.
     
  7. Riddick

    Riddick Active Member

    As much as I used to love the show, I had to give up on it last season. It became too much like E.R., like D.D. said, where they kept going back to the same one-trick pony that worked. It just got to repetitive and bland.
     
  8. imjustagirl

    imjustagirl Active Member

    I'm with spup. You only found it unbelievable because there's no way two women would do that? Men (and women) walk up to people all the time and hit on them. I don't understand, if you knew she was a lesbian, or at least was just coming out of a lesbo relationship, why it would seem odd that Arizona would know that too. If I saw a guy and knew he had dated women, and I wanted to let him know I was interested...would I have to know his entire life story before I let him know?
     
  9. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    Oh hogwash. Let's not turn this into a gender war. It was a stupid when Arizona did it as when Pete kissed Addison in a similar manner on Private Practice.

    I imagine if you were interested in a guy you'd just met, you might let him know you were interested, even without knowing his life story. I doubt you'd walk up to him and start making out with him.

    Arizona: Hello, my name is Arizona Robbins. Do you want to make out in this hallway?

    Callie: Yes.
     
  10. spup1122

    spup1122 New Member

    Re: Congrats to Katherine Heigl on getting to leave the dumbest show on televisi

    Exactly. How is it any different from the first episode of the show when Derek hit on Meredith in the bar. He didn't know anything about her. Obviously they didn't know that they'd both be working at Seattle Grace and she didn't even know he was married until the end of the first season.
     
  11. Double Down

    Double Down Well-Known Member

    Did they make out 30 seconds after they met?

    FAIL.
     
  12. spup1122

    spup1122 New Member

    No, they just had sex within hours. It's no different. She came in, told Callie she'd heard things and understood how she was feeling and kissed her. Not completely unbelievable.
     
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