Colorado regents vote to close J-school

Mizzougrad96 · Apr 18, 2011

Piotr Rasputin said:

JackS said:

I think it's still a reasonable expectation. I'm 25 years in and still going (the teaching is just on the side). And from what I gather from your posts, it's your choice that you're not still in the biz.

It's not an easy business; I know that. But if you're talented, persistent and FLEXIBLE, you can survive and even thrive.
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I am JackS' eternal sense of optimism.
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THE FIRST RULE OF JOURNALISM IS YOU DO NOT GO INTO JOURNALISM!

JackS · Apr 18, 2011

LongTimeListener said:

You are showing why people laugh when journalists try to do math. Just look at the numbers. You know, Brian Williams made a good living too, but that doesn't mean broadcast journalism was a great field to enter in the 1990s. This is the same thing.

And yes, I think everyone, particularly in a J-school, should be discouraged from entering. That is, they should be told that what awaits them is an extremely flooded pool of candidates and a likelihood that they will never make enough money to support themselves and a family. If they hear that and still want to go for it, fine, but I seriously question whether a 22-year-old is hearing that or whether the J-schools are lining their own pockets with these kids' misguided dreams. And if you think my version is a trope, then you have been spending way more time in an ivory tower than in a newsroom the past 10 years.

I also know people who lack one of your three necessary ingredients. But I know a lot who have them all and it doesn't matter.
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Just remember what your position is advocating.

Let the untalented and lazy take over the industry (insert punchline about how they already have here) because no one encourages the talented and dogged to enter it.

See what kind of country we have then.

BitterYoungMatador2 · Apr 18, 2011

JackS said:

LongTimeListener said:

You are showing why people laugh when journalists try to do math. Just look at the numbers. You know, Brian Williams made a good living too, but that doesn't mean broadcast journalism was a great field to enter in the 1990s. This is the same thing.

And yes, I think everyone, particularly in a J-school, should be discouraged from entering. That is, they should be told that what awaits them is an extremely flooded pool of candidates and a likelihood that they will never make enough money to support themselves and a family. If they hear that and still want to go for it, fine, but I seriously question whether a 22-year-old is hearing that or whether the J-schools are lining their own pockets with these kids' misguided dreams. And if you think my version is a trope, then you have been spending way more time in an ivory tower than in a newsroom the past 10 years.

I also know people who lack one of your three necessary ingredients. But I know a lot who have them all and it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Just remember what your position is advocating.

Let the untalented and lazy take over the industry (insert punchline about how they already have here) because no one encourages the talented and dogged to enter it.

See what kind of country we have then.
Click to expand...

You say you're 25? Call me when you're 35 and have been in the rodeo a while. I was full of piss and ambition at 25 too. No one could tell me I wasn't going to make it at 25. Then I saw how obedience and ass-kissing trumped talent and flexibility for a decade.

JackS · Apr 18, 2011

I wish I was 25. I've been in the business 25 years.

BitterYoungMatador2 · Apr 18, 2011

JackS said:

I wish I was 25. I've been in the business 25 years.
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So then you've REALLY seen it

JackS · Apr 18, 2011

BitterYoungMatador2 said:

JackS said:

I wish I was 25. I've been in the business 25 years.
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So then you've REALLY seen it
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Yeah, and somehow I'm a pleasant old matador.

BitterYoungMatador2 · Apr 18, 2011

JackS said:

BitterYoungMatador2 said:

JackS said:

I wish I was 25. I've been in the business 25 years.
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So then you've REALLY seen it
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Yeah, and somehow I'm a pleasant old matador.
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Well someone needs to be. Be a damn boring place if we all agreed.

Mizzougrad96 · Apr 18, 2011

MisterCreosote said:

Mizzougrad96 said:

About five years ago, someone told me that 97 percent of print journalists will never make $50K in a year.

That seems impossible because almost everyone at a bigger paper makes $50K a year, but if you think of every other smaller and medium-sized paper, maybe it really is true.
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I worked at two major-market papers in the decade I spent in the biz. I made less than $50,000/year for nine of those 10 years.

I think I've said this here before, but Mrs. C has students every now and then who want to be journalists, and I've talked to a few of them about what it's like. I don't explicitly tell them to run the other way, but that's what most of them do after hearing what it's really like.
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I've had a few friends ask me to talk their kids out of going into journalism.

Piotr Rasputin · Apr 18, 2011

Mizzougrad96 said:

I've had a few friends ask me to talk their kids out of going into journalism.
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I wouldn't do that. Talking a kid out of their dreams is often a losing proposition.

It's better to give as much honest information as possible, and allow them to make their own decisions.

Some will still do very well working in sports media. They just should avoid newspapers.

LongTimeListener · Apr 18, 2011

JackS said:

LongTimeListener said:

You are showing why people laugh when journalists try to do math. Just look at the numbers. You know, Brian Williams made a good living too, but that doesn't mean broadcast journalism was a great field to enter in the 1990s. This is the same thing.

And yes, I think everyone, particularly in a J-school, should be discouraged from entering. That is, they should be told that what awaits them is an extremely flooded pool of candidates and a likelihood that they will never make enough money to support themselves and a family. If they hear that and still want to go for it, fine, but I seriously question whether a 22-year-old is hearing that or whether the J-schools are lining their own pockets with these kids' misguided dreams. And if you think my version is a trope, then you have been spending way more time in an ivory tower than in a newsroom the past 10 years.

I also know people who lack one of your three necessary ingredients. But I know a lot who have them all and it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...

Just remember what your position is advocating.

Let the untalented and lazy take over the industry (insert punchline about how they already have here) because no one encourages the talented and dogged to enter it.

See what kind of country we have then.
Click to expand...

You inserted my punchline, dammit!

I can see you're coming at it from the academic side, which is always more idealistic. I accept that and I understand your POV. I just hope you're mixing in some reality so kids don't get to be 32 and wonder WTF JackS was talking about with all the riches that await. It seems like journalism is one field that stands out for its graduates not knowing or caring about the financial picture.

JackS · Apr 18, 2011

I may have more of an academic point of view than people who have no connection to academia, but I assure you I still spend WAY more time in the trenches than in the ivory tower.

They don't let adjuncts in the tower.

MartinonMTV2 · Apr 18, 2011

JackS said:

I may have more of an academic point of view than people who have no connection to academia, but I assure you I still spend WAY more time in the trenches than in the ivory tower.

They don't let adjuncts in the tower.
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Your point about "anyone being able to thrive" in journalism shows you don't know much about the trenches.

I did laugh when I saw your post about being in the business for 25 years, though, because I knew someone would misread it and think you were 25.

I guess in addition to not doing math, some journalists don't read well, either.

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Colorado regents vote to close J-school

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Colorado regents vote to close J-school

Mizzougrad96 Active Member

JackS Member

BitterYoungMatador2 Well-Known Member

JackS Member

BitterYoungMatador2 Well-Known Member

JackS Member

BitterYoungMatador2 Well-Known Member

Mizzougrad96 Active Member

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