CNN.com Baseball's Most intimidating pitchers of all-time

Yes... a case for Wagner needs many qualifiers.

As is the case for any lefty being intimidating across the board.

Johnson really needed that 6-foot-11 to freak out the right-handed batters, too.

 

totally agree

 

That's what intimidating is to me, buck ... the fear you can't escape that this guy may drill you behind your left ear.

It's different than being overmatched at the plate.

 

Oh, most definitely.

The phrase I used earlier was when batters are physically afraid to dig in, a la Gibson or Drysdale.

Using that as the criteria, this list is pretty strong. Honorable mentions: Allie Reynolds, Don Newcombe, Ewell Blackwell. Only recent pitcher I can think of is Dave Stewart.

 

Mayfly - What happened to Rivera against the Marlins in the 2003 World Series that caused him to no longer be feared?

Was it his 4 innings, 4 strikeouts, 0 walks, 2 hits, 0 runs and 1 save?

He struggled in the ALCS in 2004, was back to normal in 2005 and 2006 and has struggled so far this season. I agree Rivera isn't intimidating in the sense of a head hunter, but you said he isn't intimidating at all and that the league has figured him out and he "used" to be good.
Also, I'm thinking more major leaguers would rather face Billy Wagner or Eric Gagne than Mariano Rivera. Just a hunch. The problem with your theory about using Gagne pre-injury is you don't seem to want to use Rivera when he was at his most dominating self. If you take Rivera in his best year and Gagne in his, I'm taking Mo everytime, especially because he can pitch two innings and even three (see Game 7, ALCS, 2003). Rivera is also the best in this discussion because he has rarely been injured.

 

Yup. It's a list which can pretty much dismiss today's crop of pitchers.

 

Walter Johnson has to be higher on the list. He scared Ty Cobb, for crying out loud. I remember reading about Cobb talking about Walter Johnson. Cobb said that when he was player-manager of the Tigers, some players would ask for the day off. Cobb said he didn't blame them, and how he handled it was to go close to the plate because he knew Johnson was scared of hurting people with his fastball.

Ryne Duren also belongs on the list. Not only a 100 mile-per-hour fastball, but thick glasses and he was a drinker. He would regularly throw a warmup pitch over the catcher's head and hit the backstop. If you weren't scared, you would have to be crazy.

Some pitchers like Drysdale and Maglie would throw inside, but they also talked to embellish their reputation. Duren and Dalkowski would be more scary, because they had no idea where the ball was going.

 

Good call on Duren, Gold. What a psycho.

 

The 2003 World Series was a stretch on my end, the starting pitching and middle relief lost that series for the Yankees. In the 2004-2006 regular seasons, Rivera peaked. I believe the 2004 playoffs knocked him from being a top-tier closer.

IMO, intimidating doesn't mean head-hunting, rather just scared to face them in the batter's box. Mo might be intimidating for the simple fact that he used to be able to ice games, but I just can't see it in recent memory. I believe batters would be more scared to face off against a well-located 99 MPH fastball than an good cutter (that used to be great). The cutter may still have a good bit of movement, but facing high heat after a slider is hard to catch up to.

I will compare Rivera in his most dominating season with Gagne, and you will see why I want to use Gagne instead. In 2004, Rivera saved 53 games, 66 Ks, 1.94 ERA. One year before, Gagne was flat-out dominant. Gagne had 55 saves, 137 Ks, 1.20 ERA.

Give me Gagne circa 2002-04 over Rivera 2001-03, any day.

 

Give me Rivera Game 7, 2003 ALCS over Gagne any day ever.

 

Duren wrote a book in the late 1970s talking about his alcoholism. He said 80 members of his family suffered from alcoholism.

 

I get the point that you love Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, and I know you love the Yankees. We are entitled to our opinions, but in his best year Gagne was better than Rivera.