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Clay Travis on Grantland and Internet writing

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by Alma, Nov 4, 2015.

  1. Cosmo

    Cosmo Well-Known Member

    At my last job, I would say that my work went to a 70-30 online split. I was producing a ton more on my blog than in print just because our space sucked and the immediacy of the blog made it a more useful tool to disseminate information in a timely manner. Basically had something up on the blog every weekday once football practice started, and that obviously switched to a Tuesday-Sunday format once the season started.
     
  2. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    I do know we went through a time a few years ago where it was emphasized from on high that women buy stuff and ads should be targeted to women. So a slick quarterly women's magazine was produced with lots of ads and photos, and you couldn't get anyone to sell an ad in the college basketball preview section. Because, I guess, women don't watch college basketball.
     
  3. Webster

    Webster Well-Known Member

    If Simmons cared so much about the people at Grantland, why didn't he re-up with ESPN and give the site some stability?

    I heard/read two things which resonated with me. Stefan Fatsis on the excellent Hang Up and Listen podcast said that if you are in a management position with a big company, you need to act like a mature grown up and not pick immature fights. Simmons and I are exactly the same age, and the dumb things that I did when I was in my late 20s/early 30s I simply can't do anymore. Slandering Goodell and daring management to suspend him are the acts of a petulant child. And one article that I read made the point that it wasn't like Grantland was some plucky independent organization. It was a vanity project funded by a patron. It wouldn't have existed if the writers all came together and decided to build some underground website.

    Now, he has a broad based appeal and his podcasts built up tremendous goodwill and name recognition at Grantland. I happen to find most of them to be boring -- Greenwald for example is massively annoying to me -- but you can build a pretty good network based upon what ESPN has discarded. I wonder though if there is the appetite for the pop culture content as opposed to the sports.
     
  4. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    At my old paper, the college beat writers have something in the paper almost every day in the off-season.

    In general, beat writers average a couple stories in the paper every day, probably a half-dozen items on the web, from a recap of a press conference (and maybe a full transcript), a couple of newsy items, analysis, blog, maybe a video. Then there is Twitter, et al.

    Not sure I agree that beat writers should be writing opinion pieces, but they have a lot more room for opinion than the old days.

    In my career, didn't run into many "lazy" sports writers.
     
  5. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    Why would you expect anybody to take less than they can get elsewhere?
     
  6. Dave Kindred

    Dave Kindred Member

  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I think he has the first part of it right. ... Grantland didn't have to make money. ESPN could write it off as a vanity project, and that was likely what it had in mind when it started the site.

    What I think he is missing is that that was true. ... until ESPN started to come under pressure this year, and it was looking for places to cut. That is when a vanity project is the easiest thing to turn against.

    There is a bigger picture here. In each of the past few quarters this year, when Disney reported, a big red flag to investors has been that operating income from its cable networks (which ESPN is by far the largest chunk) has been declining -- ever so modestly, but quarter by quarter. Back in August, Bob Iger made a comment to investors about how ESPN was experiencing a modest decline in subscribers -- it was starting to look like a very slow leak. Disney shares actually tumbled the next day. At the same time it is seeing that modest drop in subscribers, ESPN has been seeing ratings slip a bit. That all gets attention.

    It is what led to the recent layoffs. You have to imagine there has been strong pressure from Disney to start to figure out the network's future -- between the cash cow pay TV monster it has been (which didn't require much thought). ... and whatever it is going to be in a world of on-demand video that is starting to hit its profitability. All of this is what led to the recent layoffs. It's also the kind of thing that puts a pain-in-the-ass high-priced employee and his vanity project that loses money into the crosshairs.

    The aspect of it all that surprised me is that there have been dogshit media properties getting crazy valuations with all the VC money being slung around the past few years. Grantland had some obvious value -- if ESPN had sold it, it would have netted something. But instead, ESPN chose to not to monetize whatever value it had -- I'd guess it was because they didn't want the unlikely nightmare scenario unfolding in which someone else turned it profitable and it ended up competing with ESPN. So they just ate it.

    I think some of this stuff about Grantland is handwringing. I think that Brian had a solid take. Again, the only thing I would add is that when you aren't a profitable entity, you live your life as expendable. Maybe there was an element of personal vendetta here. That seems likely. But that probably isn't all of it. The minute the larger business starts to face a challenge, it's not that crazy to think that a high-priced employee who wants even more money, and his vanity project that loses money, might be a place where someone decides to start drawing lines.
     
  8. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    Don't agree. ESPN would have let it stay a vanity place. Simmons wouldn't. He tried to equate his site to ESPN The Magazine, which it isn't, not on any level, especially from a journalism perspective. Plus, Simmons acted like a jerk on other ESPN media settings. Grantland is dead because Simmons simply couldn't stand medium significance. He blew it - for himself and all those writers. He blew it. Maybe he can reclaim it wherever he's going, but he blew it at ESPN.

    Grantland's site was fine. Fine! But a lot of people, if given the latitude to write like that at their own media sites, could write some of that stuff. They're not given the latitude. They're locked up by editors and publishers, and locked up by a fear that some tinhorn, thin-skinned coach will get all riled up over what they read. Which they might. But who cares.

    The lesson to Grantland is: Very little of it is hard to replicate at a local level. It can be done. Sometimes, it is done. But you have to have people willing to turn their staff into something more than drones from the teams. Too many writers still conduct themselves like PR firms, spewing cliches, rattling off meaningless feature stories about some guy's work ethic. Perhaps that was useful when you got great access and could tell some great, un-politically correct stories. You don't get that anymore. It's time to stop.
     
  9. NCWriter

    NCWriter New Member

    Online guys work harder? That's a really funny statement. Because a lot of these online guys are just average fans like most other people watching on TV and piggybacking off of others' content. Just about every FanSided, SB Nation and Bleacher Report articles cite beat writers as sources for the content they're creating. They don't have to have any reporting skills either, just pull quotes from a press conference you weren't at, or just take them from somebody else and stick them in your story.

    There's no questioning team blogs have good editorial content, there's some good stuff out there. The problem, people are mistaking average fans sitting behind their laptops writing stories about a game they watched from the couch as journalists. 85% of those writers make $0.00 a year, and the editors are working for absolute peanuts that's no more than extra pocket cash while the big bosses collect all the advertising revenue the sites rake in.
     
    BrendaStarr likes this.
  10. dirtybird

    dirtybird Well-Known Member

    Maybe somewhere in between. If the money was good, maybe ESPN holds on to try to make it work sans Simmons, show he wasn't essential. But cuts are needed, and a not-profitable vanity project with a batch of oft-discontent writers and ties to the black sheep, it's first on the block.

    One thing that is interesting with the economics of it (getting back to the top-down vs. bottom down) is when you start something such as Grantland, the expectation is profit. Smaller, more agile workplaces, such as Outkick the Coverage or MGoBlog among others, their main goal is to cover expenses and employ a few people. Breaking even or expanding the product is the only real goal.
     
  11. LanceyHoward

    LanceyHoward Well-Known Member

    I am from Denver and read the Post- which I think has a very talented sports staff- most frequently so I took that paper as an example. The Rockies beat is staffed by Nick Groke and Patrick Sanders. I have no idea how hard they work. But the Post's Rox Blog has one post in the last week, about the third baseman winning the Fielding Bible Award. It would seem to me that in the internet era you would want your writers to post something up everyday.

    I agree that much of internet journalism is a guy with close to zero knowledge sitting on a couch. But a working sportswriter should be able to spew something out if the guy on the couch can. The beat guy has broader knowledge. It can be a mindless list such as best third baseman to play for the Rockies in their brief history but at least try to entice people to go to the blog daily.
     
  12. LanceyHoward

    LanceyHoward Well-Known Member

    When I checked the Outkick site yesterday I saw a banner with their affiliation with Fox Sports and an add for pants. I don't know if would be profitable as a stand alone entity.
     
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