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Charlie Pierce hits a home run on John Edwards

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by spinning27, Jul 21, 2007.

  1. Flying Headbutt

    Flying Headbutt Moderator Staff Member

    I haven't read Sager's article yet, but did read Charlie's. It appears they're both somewhat partial to Edwards. What struck out was that I read the editor's note at the front, something I hardly ever do, and he said he first thought highly of Edwards, then was completely unimpressed having met him, and now had his mind changed again by those articles. Now, Jones has apparently stored up a long of angst around the Edwards camp. I really want to hear his story behind it. I also wonder why the magazine made no mention at all of the problems he had with the Edwards camp. Is that not uncommon? Just very curious.
     
  2. Jones

    Jones Active Member

    It would embarrass him to know it, but I decided to become a writer and decided that I wanted to be a writer for Esquire because of Charlie Pierce. I don't know what to tell those of you who don't see what all the fuss is about; the man's smart as hell, and he writes perfect sentences. That's a hell of a combination.

    I disagree, however, with Charlie here. I think John Edwards is a fake, and he's surrounded by the worst collection of political greaseballs I've ever encountered. They lie through their teeth when they smile at you.

    Heady, all I can really say about my experience with Edwards is, that's the first time in my ten years as a writer -- at a newspaper and at the magazine -- that I failed to come back with the story.

    Mike Sager and Charlie succeeded, though, so maybe it comes down to me.

    But no exaggeration, I thought hard about quitting writing afterward and doing something else with my life. I was that angry.
     
  3. JayFarrar

    JayFarrar Well-Known Member

    I don't know of Jones's problems, but I've had some recent dealings with the Edwards campaign and they can all suck my balls.
    Unhelpful, hard to work with, unable to accomodate the simplest of things.
    I was promised that they would e-mail me a sked - they never did and Colleen Murray still hasn't called me back.
    On the upside if any of ya'll want to know what I look like, I'm in the background of one of the Edwards's photos.
     
  4. amraeder

    amraeder Well-Known Member

    Just kinda curious if you could tell us more about this. It sounds like an interesting tale. Why didn't you come back with a story? What did they do (or not do) to you/ with you / for you / whatever, that had you so angry? What about them makes them WORSE than what other candidates have?
     
  5. spinning27

    spinning27 New Member

    You're talking about a presidential campaign as though it's the Portland Trailblazers.

    This is exactly the problem with the political media. They will go to any length to ruin a candidate simply because they don't like him. This is the same group that in 2000 and 2004 lapped up Bush's bullshit because he called them by name.
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    You pretty much nailed the essay, without having read it.

    It's very well-written. Pierce is a great writer. It also takes a deliberate point of view. It barely addresses the fact that Edwards is a hyena searching for whatever it is he can project that will get him votes. It ignores his lack of substance and his pandering. That's fine. It's clear what Pierce's politics are and this was a personal essay expressing one man's point of view.

    But the same way he can point out that Mike Huckabee's dumb zinger about Congress having "spent money like John Edwards at a beauty shop" is factually incorrect because the Beverly Hills stylist came to Edwards, Edwards didn't go to the beauty shop (really a nitpick), he could have chosen instead to wax poetic about the ridiculousness of the guy who was trying to run on a "two Americas" agenda, trying to relate to Joe Six Pack with a populist message like that when he's the kind of guy who gets $400 haircuts and has aides who call Wal-Mart to get his kids PS3's when there is a wait for them, the same day he is out there bashing Wal-Mart. That is much closer to the broader point people like Dowd make about Edwards than the suspicions about fag baiting. It's people's distrust of a guy who comes off as a fake and a hypocrite.
     
  7. spinning27

    spinning27 New Member

    Your buffoonery knows no end, Ragu. Edwards has talked about poverty since he got into politics. It has been the linchpin of nearly every political speech he's ever made. And last I checked, poverty isn't exactly an issue that gets people into the voting booth -- at least, not quite like gays getting married, right?

    Trying to pin the hypocrite label on John Edwards because he's rich and can enjoy certain luxuries of his lifestyle is a tired, tired, tired trick. If you want to talk about hypocricy based on something that matters -- like taking payoffs from lobbyists to produce legislation that hurts Americans -- let's go, buddy boy.
     
  8. Great headline in The Onion this week:

    "John Edwards vows to do away with all bad things by 2011."

    Oh, and Democrats will always, always get attacked for being wealthy, because it's an easy and smart way to try to undermine some of their core messages. Of course, no one without money can get elected, so it becomes a catch-22. Who are they going to run? Some Berkeley pamphlet pusher/hemp jewelry peddler, so as to "keep it real"?

    Of course, the Democrats use the hypocrite card, as well, particularly when it comes to religion and "family values."

    It's just politics.
     
  9. zeke12

    zeke12 Guest

    Having had occasion to deal with Edwards' campaign, I can only echo Jay and Jones -- his staffers were douchebags and the candidate himself left me flat.

    By all rights I should like the words the guy says, but I don't believe a word of it...
     
  10. Terence Mann

    Terence Mann Member

    Guy writes story or makes movie about a section of a city. Nails it. Critics say he should have focused on another part of the city, and they begin describing in detail the neighborhoods he didn't mention. They can't really pick apart his analysis of the section of the city he chose to illuminate, so they make it about what the story should have been instead of what it is.

    Have seen it for decades, and it never fails to entertain me.
     
  11. Boomer7

    Boomer7 Active Member

    Yes -- if you buy the tough-guy image that these poseurs project, while also buying the wuss-bag image that they project upon people who have actually served their country (Murtha, Kerry, Cleland, McCain), then you ARE a rube. Doesn't mean that I like Edwards or agree with everything Pierce writes, but in this instance, he's clearly right. Rove sold the country a bill of goods, and the nation got what it deserved: a bunch of actors in cowboy hats. Sort of like "The Three Amigos," but without the Hollywood ending.
     
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    My buffoonery? That's not much of a response. And it's lynchpin.

    In any case, he tries to play the populist. Class warfare is one way to stir people up. Populism DOES get people into voting booths. It's the Huey Long playbook. And it is a staple of American politics. Bill Clinton played it as subtly as anyone ever did. The problem was that Edwards tried playing the card a bit too strongly when things were going a bit too well for people. He was as serious a candidate as he was last time around, because his stump speech was incredibly effective. He was great at delivering it. Unfortunately for him, the great delivery and the boyish charm were offset by the fact that it was a bad message for the wrong time.

    But after insulting me for no reason--buffoonery?--you actually made my point. He played class warfare. And playing class warfare kind of backfires when the stories of the $400 haircuts and the aides trying to cut in line for PS3s for the guy's kids get out there. It strikes people as disingenuous and those kinds of stories stick in people's minds.

    He might not be any more of a hypocrite than lots of other wealthy people who go into politics and play on economic issues to try to carve out their niche. He's just a bumbler about it and he ends up looking like a fake. And whether it is those kinds of stories or his track record on Iraq which is now biting him in the ass because he looks nuanced and contrived, he comes across to a lot of people like a guy without principles. A guy slinging shit until he can find an issue that sticks, instead of a guy who is passionate about anything. Even there, he can't help but being a bumbler, because the natural response is, "Oh, he is that shifty trial lawyer who sweet-talked juries into multimillion dollar malpractice settlements."

    If pointing that out is buffoonery, well, then there are a ton of other buffoons out there who have commented about it. It is a wide-spread perception of the guy. Fag-baiting isn't the biggest issue there. It's the fact that he seems fake to a lot of people--what Pierce didn't really choose to focus on. I suggest doing an op-ed Nexis search.
     
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