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Cam Newton or Michael Vick?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Boom_70, Apr 27, 2011.


Who would you draft?

  1. Cam Newton

  2. Michael Vick

  1. novelist_wannabe

    novelist_wannabe Well-Known Member

    If I draft Newton, can I get Malzahn to come with him?

    It's an interesting comparison, because both players in college made their teams miles better than they would have been otherwise. Auburn's a 4 or 5 loss team without Newton. I bet the same could've been said about Vick. He almost beat Florida State by himself.
  2. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    No selective memory at all. He was a quarterback who lacked accuracy and hadn't really gotten much better even with the playing time in college.
  3. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    Yet teams were willing to give up just about anything to get him. That's interesting...
  4. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    both. and this is largely how cam has flown up the charts in such a short time. but deciding between two prospects in a fictional draft in which vick and newton were available which would you pick, a huge factor would be their body of work, given both are gifted athletes. you're trying to maximize which has the best chance of reaching that ceiling and newton's body of work falls frighteningly short in that regard.

    it's not dissimilar to the real 'peyton vs. leaf' debate (mostly a media creation going into the '98 draft). leaf's 'upside' off of one big year in college was hyped as superior to manning's, with some idiots arguing peyton had already reached his 'ceiling' in 4 years of college experience and leaf had the stronger build and stronger arm and stronger 'upside.'

    peyton, in 4 years of scrutiny, had a perfect off-field/personality/work ethic side of things. leaf already was regarded as an immature potential headcase. hey, sometimes those guys can mature and hit their ceiling, i suppose (i don't recall many qbs who have done so, though).

    the longer your body of work in college is, the more info can be compiled on you, the more experiences your exposed to give everyone more chances to see how you respond, etc.

    just look at the examples in this year's draft, and others before, when qb's were hurt, not helped, by staying in school for another season. jake locker, for one. it would've been better for him if he'd come out last year, but better for the nfl that he didn't so they could have more evidence to go on.

    newton did the right thing, in this case. turns out he'll never be a hotter commodity. but i guarantee you that every team in the league would've liked him to stay in school because someone's about to pony up a huge amount of money on a qb they wish they had more of a body of work to go on.
  5. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    And it took him how many years and a jail sentence to become what they envisioned?
  6. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    OH, AND BY THE WAY, vick was no 'slam dunk.' there were many who worried about his size and passing ability (accuracy, not arm strength). but if you wanted a qb that year, he was the only guy worthy of the top pick. but the qb-needy chargers traded the top pick overall to the falcons so atlanta could draft vick.

    if vick was this 'slam dunk' of which you speak san diego NEVER would've traded the chance to get him. they ended up with l.t. (the running back) fifth and still had brees fall to 'em at the top of round 2. atlanta was in desperate need of putting fannies in the seats and, to their credit, recognized vick woe an instant god among their fanbase. but heck, even before his dog-fighting controversy, vick was a devisive figure among nfl coaches, gm's and fans -- only this past 'comeback' season started convincing his naysayers that vick just might fulfill all of his spectacular potential.
  7. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

  8. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    We're talking about him as a NFL prospect coming out of college.

    Yes, Vick is a colossal douchebag who spent his prime in the clink.

    That's not the debate. The debate is whether Vick was a better prospect coming out of college in 2001 than Newton is a decade later.

    It's not close. If you asked this question to a NFL GM, he'd have to stop laughing to answer you.

    It's not close.
  9. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    now that thar's 'revisionist history.' only one team was willing to 'give up anything' for vick. and the team that traded away the pick was qb-needy, too. qb-needy teams with the top pick overall DO NOT trade away 'slam-dunk' qb prospects.and the qb ended up drafting in round 2 has been better than vick by a wide margin in the nfl.

    just sayin'.
  10. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    Vick doesn't fit in every system. He definitely would not have fit in San Diego's.

    The Chargers took two future Hall of Famers in that draft. In the Vick trade, the Chargers got LT, Merriman and Kaeding. That's not bad.

    There was still never any debate as to who was going No. 1 in 2001.
  11. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    You're missing my point and you are getting far too caught up in what he did last year. As shockey pointed out, there were plenty of reasons to doubt him and many of those showed up during his pro career. The guy did not come close to putting it all together until after he went to jail, which apparently woke him up and got him to put more into developing his game.

    Was Vick more clearly the top quarterback in that draft than Newton is now? Sure. But the gap is not what you are making it out to be and he certainly wasn't nearly the slam dunk you seem to think he was.
  12. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    They do if he doesn't fit their system. They were targeting Brees at the end of the first round. They tried to move up to take Brees, failed and then still got him in the second round.
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