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Bush Meets Deficit Commitment- Early

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Boom_70, Jun 13, 2006.

  1. JR - many of Gorbie's own top aides credit Reagan as the main reason the USSR toppled.

    But I guess you know better tucked away in your igloo
  2. Trouser_Buddah

    Trouser_Buddah Active Member

    Well, I guess that's that then :p
  3. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Reagan bluffing Star Wars initiative forced the Russians into the Classic Guns and butter decision. They could continue to spend money on the military or cut back and spend money on other needed things. Gorby has the forsesight to choose the butter over guns.

    It is often under estimated how important a man that gorby was to ending the cold war and also how important a figure he was in the late 20th century.
  4. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    Cite me a source, Lou.

    Fact is, Gorbie & Ronnie struck up a personal relationship which transcended politics.

    The Soviet economy was in the toilet and Gorbachev wanted to improve what was essentially a bankrupt system by reducing military spending; hence, the arms treaty with the U.S. That was one of the "tipping  points".

    It is overly simplistic to credit any one person with a seismic change in historical events.

    One of the things Marx got right was the concept of historical materialism. Still works although it was bastardized by the Communist Party.
  5. JR - you are the only one who seems to want to give all the credit to one person. Both Lyman and myself have agreed that it was a team thing (but that Reagan was captain of the team).

    As for sources - go here


    First person histories from the major players in the Reagan administration.

    Read the one by Kenneth Adelman to get a good idea about how SDI was maybe the major factor in the fall of the USSR.

    I also highly recommend reading the interview with Richard Allen
  6. JR - I missed your praise of Marx. That explains a lot.

    Can you cite for me one example where Marism has ever worked?
  7. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    Lou, I was asking for independent sources.

    Major players in the Reagan admin don't count.  

    I'm not arguing with  you about whether Reagan was the main man. I just disagree that he was the "captain".
  8. Herbert Anchovy

    Herbert Anchovy Active Member

    Marxism worked on paper, as most structural theories do.
  9. In theory, climbing a tree is a great way to escape a bear attack. Of course, in theory, Communism works
  10. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    Once again, you need to take a reading comprehension course.

    I wasnt "praising" Marx or Marxism I was talking about his theory of history. It's a basic tenet of historical scholarship these days.

    Read about it and get back to me--or phone me if the big words are difficult.
  11. Still looks like you were praising Marx to me.
  12. JR

    JR Well-Known Member

    Lou, I wasn't praising Marx.

    I was merely pointing out that his theories of history have validity--like Darwin's. There may be holes but he changed the way we look at history.

    Example: When you see a book titled "A People's History of Canada", that's a direct result --150 years later--of his approach to history. Doesn't make the booik a Marxist tract.
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