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Bobby Grich should be in the Hall of Fame

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by spnited, Dec 21, 2008.

  1. spnited

    spnited Active Member

    I couldn't care less if the BBWAA includes Neyer, Law or Bill fucking James himself.

    Again, the point is this clown is proof that sabermetricians (notice, I did not say ALL) can manipulate whatever stats they want to support a ridiculous premise.
     
  2. Dickens Cider

    Dickens Cider New Member

    And old men can use flawed logic to bash an entire way of thinking without cause.

    But you don't see any of us starting threads.
     
  3. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    and you're proof that the oldtimers aren't willing to have an open mind (notice I didn't say ALL). The way the game is looked at has evolved get over it.
     
  4. Big Circus

    Big Circus Well-Known Member

    And Bill Plaschke says Maury Wills should be in the Hall. Does that tar the efforts of all those opposed to sabermetrics? (While we're here, is there a preferred nomenclature for said group?) There are ridiculous arguments from all corners of the BBWAA.
     
  5. zeke12

    zeke12 Guest

    Luddites gets it done.
     
  6. PopeDirkBenedict

    PopeDirkBenedict Active Member

    Lay off on spinted. Its hard to keep up on SportsJournalists.com when you file all of your posts via Western Union.
     
  7. slappy4428

    slappy4428 Active Member

     
  8. dooley_womack1

    dooley_womack1 Well-Known Member

    Yes, I think VORP (for reason already stated) and OPS (mixing apples and oranges to try to get grapefruits) are bullshit stats. But even if they have merit, they don't get Grich anywhere near the Hall, nor should they. "Fame" (quotes added so the Pope doesn't have to) is Potter Stewart-ian, not Bill James-ian. And spnited is positing an example of throwing numbers out the window and flying through after them. Throwing out stuff like Luddite or whatever is far from taking the high ground of the argument.
     
  9. Big Circus

    Big Circus Well-Known Member

    I don't understand your beef with OPS. It's cut and dried. The best way to score runs is to get guys on base and get extra-base hits. Why is it so bad to mix the best stats for measuring each?
     
  10. dooley_womack1

    dooley_womack1 Well-Known Member

    OK, tell me what's better: .200/.500 or .300/.400? And is Lou Brock's .300/.400 the same as Scott Hatteberg's .300/.400? On their own, each stat says something. Together, they're merely numbers mashed together.
     
  11. zeke12

    zeke12 Guest

    Oh, spnited is just starting shit. And luddite fits perfectly.

    If you don't like VORP or OPS, don't pay any attention. I'm not a big fan of VORP, either. It just doesn't bother me that someone took the time to try to do it. It's all just different ways of looking at the same material. Calculating someone's OPS doesn't take RBI away from the Abe Simpsons of the world. Honest.

    You can still wear a purple onion tied to your belt and get five bees for a quarter.
     
  12. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    Actually, they're all pretty average. ;)

    And the reason OPS does tell you a lot more than OBP/SLG on their own is that it doesn't slight hitters who can get on base (such as, for instance, batting average does) but it also gives proper weight to hitters who can drive the ball (which SLG alone is too basic for -- it makes a hitter like Tony Batista or Tony Armas Sr. look better than they really were.)

    If a player has a very good OPS, you can be sure he's probably not a one-dimensional slugger or singles hitter. (Or he's just really, really fucking good at one of those things, a la Ichiro.) There's a reason why the stat is pretty well-accepted, even by the spnitedest of spniteds. Just sayin'.
     
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