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Bob Ryan on baseball's WAR

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by 3_Octave_Fart, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeterde01-field.shtml

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/range_factor_per_nine_ss_top_ten.shtml
     
  2. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    That's not what I asked for.

    I asked for gloved balls. The ability for a fielder to keep the ball out of the infield or off of the outfield wall is not being accounted for in this stat.

    This also does not tell you how many potential doubles were turned into singles because a player was able to cut a ball off.

    Range factor only tells you part of what I would like to know.
     
  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    What in the world makes you think that this would be helpful?

    You would include the number of times someone stopped a ball from getting to the outfield wall - I guess your stat doesn't include getting the ball after it hit the wall as a "gloved ball."

    It would also credit outfielders for letting catchable balls fall in for hits.

    And infielders for errors.

    Brilliant stat. Really sounds useful.
     
  4. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    Baseball-Reference has "balls fielded" under their "advanced defense" tab. This includes non-out plays.
     
  5. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    That's what I get for being a dick.

    Still seems that its usefulness is really, really, really scant.
     
  6. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    How does range factor account for shifts, whether the dramatic kind where everyone plays out of position for a pull hitter or the more subtle kind where the shortstop moves two steps toward the middle because of tendencies discovered by the front office? Seems like right now, if a guy fields a ball behind the bag he gets a plus mark for range, when the pre-pitch positioning might have made that a fairly routine play.

    I recall last year WAR was judging Brett Lawrie to be one of the most valuable players in all of baseball because he was showing his extraordinary range by catching so many balls out of position when he moved over on shifts.
     
  7. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    And this is where the SABR heads lose the rest of us.

    If Barry Bonds, back in the day, can close the gap between him and Van Slyke so that next to nothing reaches the outfield wall, that is a huge advantage for the Pirates.

    By cutting a ball off, and holding it to a single, you are preventing a running scoring from first and many times second. You are also obviously keeping men out of scoring position and on first base if no one is on base.

    http://baseball.isport.com/baseball-guides/defensive-tips-for-baseball-outfielders

    And you guys can play yourselves while you read this...

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-the-corner-outfield-profile-changing/
     
  8. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    I already explained the difference. You just refuse to acknowledge it because you don't like having your failed comparison dismantled so easily.
     
  9. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    The new "Baseball Prospectus" has an article about this. I just started it - first few paragraphs - but it's definitely something being talked about.
     
  10. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    No, you didn't.

    You explained a difference.

    That difference is not relevant.
     
  11. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    And people need this is a legible form. How many people out there can sort though the advanced fielding page of BR.com?
     
  12. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Not a "SABR head."

    Also: I don't think that your "gloved balls" stat answers the question you're seeking the answer to. See, it definitely would be valuable to know how many balls in the gap that Bonds gets to. But the stat lets too much noise in - i.e. it also captures balls he should have caught in the first place and didn't.
     
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