Bloggers are journalists

Also, like Frank and others have argued, I don't think the average reader understands how much work goes into an average story.

I just drummed out a 10 inch story in 30 minutes, but I put over 3 hours of time into the story. I had to sit at a spring football practice all day, take notes, interview guys, do a follow up or two, all that. And that's for a short story on an enjoyable topic.

God knows I've put 10 hours into longer stories, and I cover sports for a college newspaper. I know that I don't work nearly as much as the average reporter.

It all sounds fun, but unless it's something you really love and have a passion for, it's going to get old to an amateur very fast. My friends all wonder how the hell I do what I do for as little as I make for it. And your asking people to put similar amounts of time in for free?

 

All I am saying is that showing the versions of a story would help the writers and editors – and increase the credibility of a newspaper. As the technology is already there, there is no reason to not use it (no additional man hours needed).

In my opinion you are too scared of all the wackos out there. Don't get me wrong. There ARE wackos out there. I get insulted and spit on on a daily basis for what I write on my blog, but I've grown a thick skin, and if someone crosses the line I delete his comment, and if he crosses it again I put them in the spam box, so I don't need to deal with them anymore.

Just as we need journalists to publish, journalists need help when it comes to that kind of business. The LATimes didn't have the right technology, the right concept the right people to handle those comments. Let's see how USAToday handles it.

Again, you totally misunderstand me if you think I said that spelling in newspapers is not important. I just underlined that one cannot expect perfect spelling from me (believe me, I try as hard as I can), as my native language is German (and English is not exactly the easiest language when it comes to spelling). No one pointed out that what I really suck at is punctuation. As a kid I was drilled to put comas according to the 56 impossible rules of Doktor Duden. By 32 I managed to follow 99.9% of those rules. Now the English punctuation is incredibly hard to adapt to. But again, I try as hard as I can.

Spelling and punctuation in newspapers is very important. That's why thee is a position in every editorial that deals with that issue.

Seriously, I do respect every profession for what it is, and if I failed to make that clear or if my tone suggested otherwise, I am sorry. Like I said before, the piece we are talking about is a condensed form of a 30 page thing that explains everything in detail, and clearly states that due to the information overkill we are heading into – journalists are needed more than ever.

 

Bloggers aren't journalists, they just play them from the couch. Of mom's basement. In underwear.

I do a blog. I comment on news. And sometimes create news. It's fun.
I was in the newspaper business, studied it in college and that was fun, too.

I don't see why bloggers would want to be labeled journalists ... or want press credentials .. but that's just me.

 

This is America, Ollie. People here don't care about arguments; they'd rather bust you on spelling, or bust you on the attitude you have when delivering an argument. Also, most American journalists probably think an argument is a heated, back-and-forth exchange of insults, or at least that's what I see most of on internet message boards, and oftentimes in the Sunday op-ed page.

By the way your spelling of "organise" hinted to me that you were either British or from Europe, maybe even french Canada. But when in Rome, spell as romans do, I guess.

 

Ding, ding, ding. You are correct, sir!

People don't know how long it takes to write an average story because they don't freaking care.

People like you and Frank consider the journalist as a professional, but that's not the way the rest of the population sees us. To them, we're just some malcontented hacks stirring up trouble. They think we're out to get people. We're arrogant and preachy, and we love to write about shit that few people find important.

I think a journalist, as trained and coming out of J-schools, is not a professional in any sense of the term "professional." I think they are just a novice.

After a journalist has put in 20-30 years at several newspapers, they still aren't professionals in my opinion. They are just well-aged, and experts at repeating what other people tell them. Jesus, hasn't anyone watched Absence of Malice. If you have, you'd see that there are big flaws with what we do regardless of whether the blogs are taking us over or not.

Also, it's my opinion that a professional has an advanced, professional degree of some kind, like an MBA, or a J.D. or a medical degree, a DVM, etc. Most journalists just have a bachelor's degree. I think the common, rank-and-file jerk off on the street has a similar opinion of what constitutes a professional. Also, I believe professionals make professional-level pay, i.e. upward of 75K per year and up, depending on the area of the country you live in.

And most common folks on the street aren't going to see anyone as a professional unless that person makes boo-coo bucks. One could just be some idiot who had a good idea, marketed and sold it and made millions -- then the average person would call them a "professional" businessman or woman. Yep, the public is that fickle.

I dated three different babes in three different towns over the past 10 years. None of them worked in media, but after getting to know me and to know what I do for a living, they all told me at some point or another that newspaper work was akin to blue-collar type employment. The hours suck, the pay sucks, co-workers oftentimes are dolts, bosses are uncreative, readers treat you like crap, and many times you do the same repetitive functions week after week, and day after day.

That sounds like an apt description of my work when I was in college and worked a butcher's shop.

 

Impressive post, sartrean.

I think it's beaucoup, but it probably isn't. And it's sad when someone attempts a spelling error, and makes a spelling error himself. right?

 

Actually professionals are clergy, military officers, medical doctors, lawyers and nothing else.
Defining success by how much money you make is odd, most people look at quality of life and money plays a part, but it isn't everything.
Newspaper work is what you make of it, for some, for people like me, it has been a fun ride and I don't want it to end anytime soon.
Every job has its flaws, newspaper work isn't any different, but bloggers still aren't journalists.

 

Interesting. I will be subscribing to your newsletter.

 

Yes, I always seek out Hollywood for true insights into the newspaper business.

Now I understand that this movie was written by former Detroit Free Press executive editor Kurt Luedtke, but it is still a movie.

 

Oliver --
I have no interest in debating media theory with you, since arguing with net/blog triumphalists is like debating the Roswell crowd but, I'm sorry, the assertion that, "The collective is smarter than you" has me looking around for armbands and shiny boots.

 

Got an e-mail from a guy this morning who said he was announcing a launch of a new site, a blog that would serve as a news and information center for our city.

Where did 90 percent of his links come from?

You guessed it ... our. fucking. newspaper. site.

 

That's absurd.

Are the men and women of the U.S. foreign service not professionals, either? After all, they only get paid $40-45K a year? Never mind that they have to take an exam to get in that would put the ABA exam of any state to shame.

Are public defendants not professionals? You are, I would assume, well aware that lawyers in the public sector get paid journalist's wages?

Are architects not professionals? Yeah, there are some that make big-time money. There are others that top out in the $50K-$60K range.

Are teachers not professionals?

My brother is a lawyer and spends all day processing busywork that would numb your brain. By the time he pays his student loans every month he takes home - you guessed it - journalist's wages.

Is he not a professional?