Billy Wagner HOF?

Jose Canseco deserves consideration, too. He only allowed three runs in his whole career.

 

Wagner was/is much more dominant than Hoffman, though. I think the thing that will hurt Wagner is that he will be overshadowed by Rivera, who is the only modern reliever in baseball outside of Gossage who I'd rank ahead of Wagner.

 

Insufficiently famous.

 

Wagner struck out more batters, but he was not a better closer than Hoffman in his prime. The problem is that Hoffman hung on and was useful for a long time after his prime, so that is what some people remember. They forget how good he was at his best.

 

Best 5 ERA+:

Hoffman 265, 226, 198, 190, 179
Wagner 293, 287, 279, 275, 247

Even in their best years, Wagner was a better pitcher than Hoffman.

 

Simple answer: No fucking way.

 

I thought it was the Hall of Fame. I didn't realize that it's actually the Hall of Guys with the Best ERA+.

I know performance and stats count for a lot. But don't forget what the Hall is all about. It's really a place to remember the historic figures of baseball. Billy Wagner was a great relief pitcher. But he's not a historic figure. Hoffman is. I would put Curt Flood in the Hall of Fame before I'd put Wagner in the Hall. We don't have to celebrate every talented ballplayer with a spot in the Hall of Fame.

 

How is Hoffman a historic figure?

 

I assume he is saying that because Hoffman is the all-time leader in saves.

 

Sorry. I thought everyone knew that Hoffman holds the career record for saves.

 

I know that but I don't consider him a historic figure because of it.

 

The only thing Hoffman is known for is accumulating a lot of saves. That does not make him an historic figure of baseball. Rivera on the other hand...