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Billy Wagner HOF?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Ilmago, Oct 16, 2010.

  1. Ilmago

    Ilmago Guest

    I like these type of threads, Billy Wagner retired this season and I was wondering if you guys thought he was a Hall of Famer?

  2. TheSportsPredictor

    TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

    Not a chance.
  3. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    I may not go that far, but I would say it is extremely unlikely. I think a closer needs an almost perfect resume to get in. He has to have the big save total, great peripheral numbers and he has to have come through in the playoffs.

    Wagner has the saves. He is fifth all-time with 422, only two behind John Franco (does anybody think he's going to get in?). He has the peripherals with a 2.31 ERA, a 0.998 WHIP and 1,196 strikeouts in 903 innings. To carry an 11.9 strikeout-per-inning ratio would be the best of all time, according to baseballreference.com, if he had 1,000 innings pitched.

    But his post-season numbers suck. Wagner is 1-1 with three saves and a 10.03 ERA in 14 career playoff appearances. Given the high standards for a closer getting into the Hall of Fame, that's probably going to keep him out.
  4. shockey

    shockey Active Member

    TSP got it right. NOT. A. CHANCE.

    the hall is tough on relievers. i can see where that might loosen up some now that closers are compiling huge save counts, but rightly or wrongly -- i vote for rightly -- closers lacking in post-season experience score many minus points. yeah, it's not necessarily their fault if they're short on post-season appearances/results, but it's in those ultimate pressure situations that closers must show they're of hall of fame muster.

    there aren't many already in. only five: gossage, fingers, eckersley are in largely because they had several ultimate saves in world series play. wilhelm was before my time; i'm just guessing he was something as a closing pioneer. the fifth is sutter. i'm not sure why he's in; his numbers are relatively modest. perhaps because he was seen as revoltionary due to his mastery of the split-finger fastball. wasn't he the first or among the first to rely on it?

    when i think of wagner, i never think, "oh, yeah, he was the most dominant and successful closer around for several years. eck, fingers, goose fill that bill. to me, wagner is a southpaw lee smith -- lengthy careers, very good compilers, who leave me without the what i'd call enough "big-game saves."

    of the current relievers, i'm not sure anyone besides mariano is sure to get in. who else will be considered? the guy in san diego, hoffman? perhaps. but too many voters may think of his numerous, glaring blown saves to give him their vote.

    if anyone can change my mind on any of this, please do. i'm primarily going with aging raw memory here.
  5. Piotr Rasputin

    Piotr Rasputin New Member

    No shit?
  6. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    The only thing I would disagree with is calling Wagner a compiler. He has been a dominant closer in the regular season. I think the playoff failures keep him from any real consideration.

    I think Hoffman might get in. He was dominant in his prime and he is the all-time saves leader with nobody but Rivera even close. That said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Rivera is the only closer currently active who gets into the Hall of Fame.
  7. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    But his post-season numbers suck. Wagner is 1-1 with three saves and a 10.03 ERA in 14 career playoff appearances.


    End of thread.
  8. Mizzougrad96

    Mizzougrad96 Active Member

    Rivera will get in. Hoffman should get in.

    I'll be very surprised if any other current closers make it.
  9. HanSenSE

    HanSenSE Well-Known Member

    I still wonder why Lee Smith isn't in.
  10. Guy_Incognito

    Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

    He wasn't good enough.
  11. Killick

    Killick Well-Known Member

    Oh, Jesus. What's next? "Jesse Orosco: HOF?"
  12. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Didn't Orosco play in four decades?
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