Best shortstops of all time

Oh come on. Fielding is nowhere near 45 percent of a player's value. Jeter puts up 110, 120 runs on the board in a normal year. There aren't any fielders who save 100 runs a year, or even 80 runs a year.

As bad as he is with the glove, Jeter is certainly a top 10 shortstop, and moving up the list.

I'd go:
1. Honus
2. A-Rod
3. Ripken
4. Larkin
5. Vaughan
6. Ozzie
7. Jeter
8. Banks
9. Yount
10. Appling

Apologies to Pop Lloyd or Devil Wells.

 

Vizquel is not going to make the Hall of Fame.

 

No way Omar Vizquel makes the Hall. No way.

 

Except for popular perception (meaning he didn't do a backflip or hit one timely left-handed homer), Omar Vizquel is the same player as Ozzie Smith. The same.

 

That's essentially it. He's the only other SS to ever win double-digit Gold Gloves. Actually, if you look at his stats George Davis and Honus Wagner are the only other shortstops to have eclipsed him in BA, R, RBI and 2B, if I checked right. The main shortstops he is related to (offensively, at least) are all in the HoF.

 

You wouldn't say that if you saw him play day in and day out. He doesn't get as many highlight (web gem) plays as some other but their is simply no better shortstop defensively in the game today or many even ever. His hitting is remarkably good considering how he started out as a hitter. Ozzie for all his flash and highlight plays was not as consistently good at the plate as Omar has been. Ozzie was a terrible hitter for most of his career where as Omar has been an above average hitter for most of his. I would say Omar ranks in the top ten, maybe a little higher then Ozzie but not much and at about the same as Jeter. Jeter gets way to much credit for his slightly below average defense because every once in awhile he makes some plays that other guys didn't have the chance to make (Giambi out at home) or makes plays seem harder then they actually are. (super man flying into the stand, Nomar sitting game) One thing Jeter is for certain is an amazing hitter, he has uncanny ablity to hit inside fast balls to right field and is as tough as an out that there is in the game. Jeter is also an unquestioned leader with is performance and tough as nails player that ever team dreams of below average fielding or not.

 

1.) Honus
2.) The Wizard
3.) A-Rod
4.) Mr. Cub
5.) Ripken, Jr.

 

OK, Buck, I know I am punching out of weight when I debate you on baseball, but Ozzie seems to have been a much better feilder than Omar. Ozzie was getting to about 60-70 more chances a season and turning 15-20 more DPs a season. I know Ozzie was booting more balls, but Ozzie was giving you an extra out every other game because of what he could get to.

Ozzies best four years feilding

Year Ag Tm Lg Pos G PO A E DP FP l gFP RFg lgRFg RF9 lgRF9
1985 30 STL NL SS 158 264 549 14 111 .983 .963 5.15 4.26 GG,AS
1986 31 STL NL SS 144 229 453 15 96 .978 .963 4.74 3.96 GG,AS
1987 32 STL NL SS 158 245 516 10 111 .987 .965 4.82 3.89 GG,AS
1988 33 STL NL SS 150 234 519 22 79 .972 .967 5.02 3.99 GG,AS

Omar's best four
1996 29 CLE AL SS 150 226 447 20 91 .971 .971 4.49 4.19 GG
1997 30 CLE AL SS 152 245 429 10 98 .985 .974 4.43 4.05 GG
1998 31 CLE AL SS 151 273 442 5 94 .993 .972 4.74 4.26 GG,AS
1999 32 CLE AL SS 143 221 396 15 88 .976 .970 4.31 4.19 GG,AS

And to put how great these two are into perspective...
Jeter
1999 25 NYY AL SS 158 230 391 14 87 .978 .970 3.93 4.19
2000 26 NYY AL SS 148 236 349 24 77 .961 .973 3.95 4.17 4.12 4.71 148 1278.7
2001 27 NYY AL SS 150 211 344 15 68 .974 .973 3.70 4.03 3.81 4.49 150 1312.3
2002 28 NYY AL SS 156 219 367 14 69 .977 .975 3.76 4.15 3.81 4.56 156 1383.3

ARod, wow, very good
2000 24 SEA AL SS 148 242 438 10 122 .986 .973 4.59 4.17 4.76 4.71 148 1285.0
2001 25 TEX AL SS 161 280 451 18 117 .976 .973 4.54 4.03 4.72 4.49 161 1395.3
2002 26 TEX AL SS 162 259 472 10 108 .987 .975 4.51 4.15 4.73 4.56 160 1390.7
2003 27 TEX AL SS 158 227 464 8 111 .989 .971 4.37 4.13 4.54 4.54 158 1369.7

Belanger, wow
1973 29 BAL AL SS 154 241 530 23 100 .971 .963 5.01 4.43 GG
1974 30 BAL AL SS 155 243 552 13 100 .984 .965 5.13 4.24 GG
1975 31 BAL AL SS 152 259 508 17 105 .978 .959 5.05 4.09 GG
1976 32 BAL AL SS 153 239 545 14 97 .982 .967 5.12 4.40 GG,AS

Bill Russell
1976 27 LAD NL SS 149 251 476 28 90 .963 .964 4.88 4.48 AS
1977 28 LAD NL SS 153 234 523 29 102 .963 .963 4.95 4.30
1978 29 LAD NL SS 155 245 533 31 91 .962 .966 5.02 4.25
1979 30 LAD NL SS 150 218 452 30 70 .957 .965 4.47 4.51

 

Since I think A-Rod will be considered the best player of all timeby the time he's done, I'm going to go with him.

 

They're similar, but not really.

For a considerable chunk of his career, Ozzie was the best offensive shortstop in the National League. There are a couple of seasons Ozzie was a legitimate MVP candidate. Ozzie was a great basestealer, and his offensive contributions weren't totally buried underneath the home run barrage. Certainly Ozzie was the dominant player at his position in his league for the majority of his prime. Omar was the fourth- or fifth-best guy in the league.

And Ozzie was a considerably better fielder. Omar was a great, if somewhat overrated fielder -- Ozzie is arguably the greatest defensive player of all time. (The best defensive shortstop of the past 15 years, incidentally, is Adam Everett, Gold Gloves be damned.)

 

Omar has not been overrated. I've had the chance to watch him nearly every game in the Bay Area these past 3 years and he's so solid, smooth, effortless. He's one of the best I've seen in the past 35 years. He makes spectacular plays, but its the average plays where he excels.

Ozzie was the standard bearer (this from someone who despised him after his weak sissy sucker punch on Will Clark) but remember that he got to play on AstroTurf in St. Louis where there are nothing but true hops and Omar (except early years in Seattle) has played on grass.

 

Assuming that to be the case, how many more putouts and assists does that mean?

Is Vizquel a .340 fielder to Jeter's .280 fielder, if you get the analogy.