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baseball/softball scoring question

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by pressboxer, Mar 7, 2008.

  1. pressboxer

    pressboxer Active Member

    I've got a rule book in a box somewhere at home, but don't have the time or inclination to go digging for it.

    The scenario: Runners at first and second, batter bunts back to the pitcher; pitcher goes to third in time to get the lead runner, but the shortstop drops the throw for an error and all hands are safe.

    The question: Is the batter credited with a sacrifice? Had the play been made, it would have simply been a fielder's choice even though the batter was clearly attempting to move the runners.
  2. spnited

    spnited Active Member

    Sacrifice, E-6
  3. TheSportsPredictor

    TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

    Should be FC E-6 if the runner would have been out.
  4. spnited

    spnited Active Member

    Sorry, TSP...can not assume the out.
    Sac E-6
  5. Hammer Pants

    Hammer Pants Active Member

    I concur with spnited and buckdub.
  6. Sam Mills 51

    Sam Mills 51 Active Member

    SAC, E-6.
  7. TheSportsPredictor

    TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

    You can assume the out if the guy dropped the ball with the runner five feet from the base, just as you can assume the out if the 1B drops the ball with the runner five feet from the base.
  8. spnited

    spnited Active Member

    No, TSP, according to scoring rules you can not.
    You charge the error becuase in the opinion of the scorer the runner would have been out. You credit a sac because, despite the opinion part of the scoring, you can not assume the runner would be out.
    Same as on a potential DP...runner can be 20 feet from first base when shortstop throws wild after getting the force. There is no error because you can never assume the out.
  9. Ruth-Gehrig

    Ruth-Gehrig Member

    If the shortstop drops the ball at third base, the hitter doesn't earn a sacrifice. It's an E-6.
    The only reason the shortstop does not get an error after a wild throw on the back end of the double play is because an out was recorded at second base.
    If the ball goes into the stands or into the outfield and the runner advances, then the shortstop gets an E-6 despite the out at second base.
  10. OJ1414

    OJ1414 Member

    The scoring rules don't have an exception for errors on sacrifice bunts the way they do for doubles plays and even that exception only applies to wild throws, not dropped ones:

    From Major League Baseball official rules, 10.00 The Official Scorer:
    Since there's no exception (and even if we were talking abotu a double play here, it would be an error anyway), I'd come down on the side of E-6, no sacrifice.
  11. joe_schmoe

    joe_schmoe Active Member

    This is very flawed logic. 1. You do assume the out, that's the reason for the thing called error. Error suggests an out would have been made had the play gone down cleanly. Like already pointed out you don't assume the out on a DP because one out is made. 2. By definition, you can't award a "sacrifice" if the batter didn't sacrifice himself. 3. Look at it another way, if he's not bunting, and instead just hits a simple grounder to short. Short then throws wild to third, you aren't going to award the batter a base hit are you? Same concept. 4. The rule book actually states that the sacrifice is to be applied only when the play is made on the batter. It's very specific in the NCAA manual and the NFHS baseball/softball manual.
  12. Simon_Cowbell

    Simon_Cowbell Active Member

    E-6, by definition, is assuming the out.
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