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Baseball/Softball question

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by schiezainc, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. deskslave

    deskslave Active Member

    Exactly. If the next batter had doubled, and the runner scored, and then the following batter struck out, the run would be unearned, because you can only assume the runner would have made it to third on the double. Barsuk's description is spot-on. You go through and figure out how the inning would have gone without the error. Any runs that scored that otherwise wouldn't have are unearned.

    So, for example, if an error allows the first batter of the inning to reach, and the next batter hits a home run, one run is earned. (The home-run hitter still would have batted, but it would have been with one out and the bases empty.) If, however, the next two batters strike out, and the fourth guy to bat in the inning homers, both runs are unearned.

    If an error only allows a runner to move up a base, you can't determine at that moment whether his run will or will not be earned. You have to see how the inning plays out.

    And to answer the original question, in that situation the RBI and the errors have nothing to do with each other. It doesn't matter how the runner reached. As long as you drive him in, you get an RBI.
     
  2. mike311gd

    mike311gd Active Member

    I don't think you can retroactively make runs unearned.
     
  3. e4

    e4 Member

    you can. it's not retroactive, per se. you can't make the determination in some cases until the inning is over.
     
  4. Barsuk

    Barsuk Active Member

    Not quite sure what you mean by that, but there are cases when you don't know if a run is earned or unearned until the inning is over.

    Say a guy (runner A) is at second with one out and there's a ground ball to the second baseman. He commits a throwing error, allowing the batter to reach and the runner from second (who would have moved up to third) scores. Is it earned or unearned? Depends what the next batter does.

    If the next guy strikes out, and the guy after him is retired, the run is unearned. When you replay the inning without the error, he would not have scored. If the next guy gets a hit (which would have scored runner A regardless of the error) then the run is earned.
     
  5. e4

    e4 Member

    assume the runner reaches on a single, then advances to second on the same play because of a throwing error. and the next batter hits a homer, i think both runs are earned because the runner on second would have scored from first on the homer

    assume the runner reachers on a single, then advances to second on the same play because of a throwing error. and the next batter hits a double, i think the run is unearned because the error put the runner into scoring position.
     
  6. Barsuk

    Barsuk Active Member

    In franklin's situation, the next guy hit a home run, so the advancement to second on the error is moot. He would've scored on the home run regardless of whether the error was committed, thus the run is earned. That's my interpretation.

    As far as giving the pitcher the benefit of the doubt, I interpret that to mean you don't give a guy two bases on a single, three bases on a double, etc., when reconstructing the inning.
     
  7. mike311gd

    mike311gd Active Member

    The latter is determined by the scorer's judgment. If he think Carl Crawford's going to score from first on that double, he can call in earned. That's what I got from 10.16(d).
     
  8. mike311gd

    mike311gd Active Member

    That's how I see it, too.

    I don't think my mind works exactly how you the rest of yours do. When I'm scoring the game and an error happens, I've already replayed most scenarios, so I don't need to question the earned/unearned. Maybe that's why when I said something about "retroactively make runs unearned," it baffled some.

    I've just read 10.16 twice. The first situation, where someone reaches on an error with two outs and consecutive homers are hit, there are no earned runs. That was my original point. One error -- which allows a runner to get on base; not advance a bag -- with two outs to prolong the inning means the opposition can bat around, getting nine consecutive clean singles, and every run is unearned.

    No one's arguing that, right? (There are four or five different scenarios out there, and I'm a bit confused.)
     
  9. mike311gd

    mike311gd Active Member

    OK. I'm going one at a time.
     
  10. mike311gd

    mike311gd Active Member

    Forget it. I'm dizzy.
     
  11. Barsuk

    Barsuk Active Member

    You're right on that, mikey. Once an error is committed that would have resulted in the third out, all subsequent runs are unearned. Cut and dried.
     
  12. mike311gd

    mike311gd Active Member

    Sweetness. I don't have to jump out of my apartment window tonight.
     
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