baseball hall of fame inductions

you're spitting us, right? four 100-rbi seasons in a 21-year career? only three others with 90 or more? no way, jose.

 

Nice piece about how Rickey wrote and practiced his speech before a classroom of people who didn't necessarily know who he was. The students were from Bangladesh, Africa, the Aleutian Islands, Taiwan and China.
And he talks about his problem using "s."

http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_12903986
"Speech and me don't get along sometimes," he said. "I'm not a doctor or professor, so for me to go and write a speech or read a speech, it's kind of like putting a tie too tight around my neck."

 

nice piece to show rickey's self-awareness of his speaking flaws. but, sadly, the classes didn't seem to pay off much. he still came across as inarticulate and not well-educated, sad to say.

 

Neat article. Thanks for the link. I've got to give him credit.

I thought he came across ok. Sincere. You could tell he was trying very hard to speak slowly.

I thought he seemed more like someone with a speech impediment or learning disability who was struggling through something he wasn't comfortable with.

Without the help, he may have been much worse.

 

Yeah, but that's not the point.

The point is when people start tossing around "most feared hitter" as a Hall of Fame argument, it doesn't mean anything unless numbers back it up.

 

I posted a few years ago about how Rice and the concept of being the "most feared," but can't seem to find the original post.

Anyway, the gist of it was: for someone who was supposedly so "feared," man, pitchers sure did like pitching to him -- never once did he finish top-10 in walks, and only twice did he even have so many as 10 intentional walks in a season. Was it because Yaz and Perez and Fisk and Tony Armas (depending on the year) were hitting behind him throughout most of that vaunted 1975-86 period? Perhaps, although plenty of other great AL hitters had protection behind them, too. ... Or was it because he had at least one major weakness that pitchers knew they could exploit: GIDP (a category he led the league four times in, by the way)?

Hell, George Brett had exactly twice as many IBBs (144-72) as Rice from '75-'86. Eddie Murray had nearly 50 more, and he wasn't even in the league for the first two years of that span. Yaz had just 11 fewer during that span, and he didn't even play the last three years of it.

So, using any piece of evidence more objective than "your own eyes" -- it doesn't have to be statistical, but something besides memories of games played three decades ago, please -- how exactly was Rice the "most feared" hitter in the league?

 

RBIs are still a crappy stat. But other than HRs that one time, he more or less never led the league in anything important in his entire career.

If he gets in, it's on longevity alone. He's top-50 all-time in games, at-bats, plate appearances, hits, total bases (25th), doubles, home runs, RBIs, extra-base hits (23rd), HBP, sacrifice flies (10th).

That's top-50 in way too many things to leave him out in my book, but for "the Hall is only for absolute no-doubters" people, I understand leaving him out.

 

Here we go again with RBI is a crap stat. Why, because it shows that a player has the ability to deliver with men on base and produce runs?
You say it's solely dependent on teammates getting on base. I say it's just as dependent on a gy's ability to get hits when they matter the molst ... with men on base.

 

I remember that post and it was a compelling argument for Rice not being as feared as people like to say he was.

As for Rickey, that was an awesome story about him working on the speech. He did a great job with it, especially in light of that story. It was definitely heartfelt and I think he came across as genuinely humbled to be there - a first for sure, when it comes to Rickey.

 

Even if you choose to ignore the data that shows getting hits when they matter is much more luck than skill, then slugging percentage combined with some sort of clutch-situation splits will show what you are trying to measure much better than RBIs will.

 

Well, it's not so much that getting the hits is luck -- that part IS skill, and regardless of how many opportunities a hitter has with RISP, he still has to drive them in -- so much as it is having the good luck to have teammates on base in front of you to get those opportunities.

So spnited is half-right: getting the RBI itself is dependent upon being good enough to drive runners in, and that's valuable (and rightfully so). But you can't ignore the fact that if a guy's teammates aren't good enough to give him those opportunities, then his RBI totals are going to be shit regardless of how good he is at driving runners in.

Which is why I wish something like an "RBI ratio" (the percentage of RISP driven in per opportunity) was a more accepted stat, because it would show just how good a batter is at getting guys in, rather than a guy like Howard simply compiling great RBI totals because he's got MVP candidates Rollins and Utley in front of him.

 

How's this?
“I’m telling you -- this guy, nobody scared me, but this guy came the closest,” Goose Gossage said. “He was amazing.”

http://www.nesn.com/jim-rice/

If Gossage felt that way, how do you suppose other, non-HOF caliber pitchers felt? That's partly where the "feared" thing came from. Other players used to talk about him in those terms. There are any number of reasons why his walk totals may not have been what you'd expect of a "feared" hitter. Perhaps, because he felt his job was to drive in runs, he expanded his strike zone with runners on base. That could have something to do with the GIDP totals, as well. I don't know. But I think that if you tried to suggest that Rice wasn't as feared a hitter as he's now made out to be, most pitchers of his era, like Gossage, would tell you that you're wrong.