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Baseball Hall of Fame, Class of '08

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by PhilaYank36, Dec 27, 2007.

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Who would you vote into the Baseball Hall of Fame?

  1. Rod Beck (P - 1st year)

    3 vote(s)
    3.1%
  2. Bert Blyleven (P - 47.7% in 2007)

    57 vote(s)
    59.4%
  3. Dave Concepcion (SS - 13.6)

    10 vote(s)
    10.4%
  4. Andre Dawson (OF - 56.7)

    51 vote(s)
    53.1%
  5. Chuck Finley (P - 1st)

    3 vote(s)
    3.1%
  6. Rich "Goose" Gossage (P - 71.2)

    84 vote(s)
    87.5%
  7. Tommy John (P - 22.9)

    14 vote(s)
    14.6%
  8. David Justice (OF - 1st)

    2 vote(s)
    2.1%
  9. Don Mattingly (1B - 9.9)

    10 vote(s)
    10.4%
  10. Mark McGwire (1B - 23.5)

    18 vote(s)
    18.8%
  11. Jack Morris (P - 37.1)

    42 vote(s)
    43.8%
  12. Dale Murphy (OF - 9.2)

    13 vote(s)
    13.5%
  13. Robb Nen (P - 1st)

    1 vote(s)
    1.0%
  14. Dave Parker (OF - 11.4)

    7 vote(s)
    7.3%
  15. Tim Raines (OF - 1st)

    45 vote(s)
    46.9%
  16. Jim Rice (OF - 63.5)

    52 vote(s)
    54.2%
  17. Lee Smith (P - 39.8 )

    24 vote(s)
    25.0%
  18. Alan Trammell (SS - 13.4)

    20 vote(s)
    20.8%
  1. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    I will bet you one starved to death bird Bert gets in the HOF before his eligibility expires. The guy won 287 games. I would also bet you that no pitcher who begins his career in 2008 will ever get to 287 wins. With each passing year, Bert's resume gets better and better. I bet he has the biggest vote increase this year.

    As for the home runs, you're jumping all over the 1986-87 seasons, when he gave up 50 and 46 bombs, respectively. but he also threw 271 2/3 innings (1st in 1986) and 267 innings (4th in 1987) those seasons. And 1987 was the year of the juiced ball. He also had an ERA well below the league average those seasons. He was STILL doing far more help than harm to the Twins those years. Give me a guy who throws 270 innings and gives up a bunch of bombs instead of a guy going 190 innings.

    Most of all, though, these seasons were aberrations in Blyleven's career. Overall, he gave up 430 homers in 4970 innings. That's less than one every TEN innings. Less than one a game. Subtract '86-87 and his HR rate is one per 13.27 IP. That's not Hall-worthy? For a guy who regularly ranked among the league leaders in IP?

    Blyleven had an ERA of 3.03 or below in EACH of his first eight full seasons despite pitching in the AL every year but one. He finished his career with a 3.31 ERA, more than a half-run lower than the league average, and a 1.20 WHIP.

    Hall of Famer.

    As for McGwire, you cannot be serious. If he defined an era, it wasn't in a good way. You really think a guy who hit .231-.235-.201 in three consecutive years EARLY in his career is Hall-worthy? A guy who basically missed all of the 1993 and 1994 seasons?

    Before he went juice-crazy, he was Dave Kingman with a slightly better eye at the plate. Even his Koufaxian peak is not enough to put him in...not when you consider the, yes, era in which he played. Two hundred and eighty-four homers in five seasons--almost half his career total--is not enough to put him in considering he almost certainly had all the advantages of his peers and that he never approached those numbers before or after.
     
  2. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    Couldn't agree more.

    Isn't it a lack of longevity keeping Don Mattingly out?

    That's what lifts a player from the Hall of Excellent to the Hall of Fame: Doing it for the better part of two decades. I never understood why pitching so long was held against Don Sutton or Phil Niekro or Bert Blyleven. If they were perceived as hanging on too long, then Steve Carlton should still be waiting to get in.
     
  3. Herbert Anchovy

    Herbert Anchovy Active Member

    I voted for Dave Krieg
     
  4. Gold

    Gold Active Member

    Thanks Della; I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that. People talk about New York bias - and that has truth to it - but the fact that Rice gets 50 or 60 percent and Parker doesn't get 25 percent shows a bias.

    It isn't just numbers. It is a case of who would you rather face. With Rice, there is a big difference between his home and away average.
     
  5. Gold

    Gold Active Member

    Blyleven and Tommy John are examples of pitchers who were very good for a long time, but never dominant and that is what the Hall of Fame should be about. It's not the Hall of Very Good
     
  6. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    I agree with you on John. If you want to induct him for the surgery that has his name attached to it, elect Dr. Frank Jobe.

    But Blyleven was a lot better than very good for a long time.
     
  7. Rumpleforeskin

    Rumpleforeskin Active Member

    Is there a benchmark for pitchers any more to get into the Hall of Fame? Or is the current era going to do away with once respected numbers (ie; ERA, IP, etc)?
     
  8. Gold

    Gold Active Member

    Here's my question. If you take a look at the teams who made post-season during his career, take Blyleven each year and ask if he would have been that team's number one starter. Now he played on Minnesota in 1987, although Frank Viola may have been as good. But look at the other teams. Even in 1987, Jack Morris was better.
     
  9. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    The list of already-elected Hall of Fame shortstops with career statistics significantly (in some cases, dramatically) inferior to Alan Trammell.

    A similar list (perhaps longer) can be compiled for Lou Whitaker.
     
  10. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    I have never understood why those guys get such little regard.

    Maybe they're not HOFers, but they certainly stand up well to many who are already in there. Was it you who posted the startling similiarities between Sandberg and Whitaker last year?

    I probably wouldn't vote for Whitaker. (Irrelevant since he's off the ballot, doubly irrelevant since I have no vote) I probably would vote for Trammell.
     
  11. BYH

    BYH Active Member

    Do you mean best pitcher on the field or best pitcher on the staff? Morris was the Tigers' ace in '87.

    Anyway, Blyleven was the best Pirates pitcher during the '79 postseason, when he performed better than Tom Seaver in the NLCS and Jim Palmer in the WS. Viola had a better year in '87 but Bert pitched better in the LCS and outperformed every Tigers starter (including Jack, who gave up six runs in eight innings in his only start). And his 2.77 ERA in the WS was by far the best for any starter, even MVP Viola (who was bombed in Game Four).
     
  12. Tom Petty

    Tom Petty Guest

    ripken's consecutive game streak went through 1998. he received mvp votes in 1995 and he had 102 rbi in 1996 and 84 in 1997. after 98, he played in 86, 83 and 128 games before retiring.

    are you suggesting ripken should have had the foresight to have retired in 1997? ... he hit .340 in 1999 with 57 rbi in 86 games, btw.

    what's your point?
     
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