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Avengers: Endgame (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by John B. Foster, Apr 26, 2019.

  1. John B. Foster

    John B. Foster Well-Known Member

    Thought I would create a new thread about the movie so we can avoid spoilers anywhere else.

    Thoughts on the movie?
  2. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    Still going to tread carefully for a bit, at least until we get a few posts in. But, here we go...

    Time travel movies always make my head hurt because they always leave unexplained plot holes. Like, was the Thanos they fought at the end a Thanos (as in from an alternate reality) or the Thanos? And if it was the Thanos, then did the Snappening ever happen? They tried to set it up as if it did, but if Thanos was whisked away and then defeated before he gathered the stones then he's not there to do it, right? Even if they go back and carefully reset the timeline?
    And shouldn't there have been some sort of similar paradox with Nebula and Gamora?
    And what do the dusted remember of their time being dusted? How do they pick up their lives right where they left off?
    Other than that, it was enjoyable. I think I liked Infinity War better, but this brought a satisfying conclusion to the arc of most of the characters and this era of the MCU.

    Oh, and I absolutely loved how THAT moment in the final battle paid off one of the best scenes ever in the MCU. I was only disappointed that I watched it with a pretty flat crowd that didn't react at all.
  3. Roscablo

    Roscablo Well-Known Member

    I agree with much. The time travel stuff, just who knows. At least they made fun and light of it by teasing all the other time travel movies out there. I am sure there are a lot of elements to think about regarding that and honestly the Thanos one I didn't even think of. One that struck me right away was Nebula freaking killed herself. How does that impact her present? The other was Captain America's conclusion. While I loved it and it is completely fitting since it has always conflicted him, and it made me more misty eyed than Iron Man's, which was fairly predictable honestly, how does he go and return the stones yet stay in the past and lead a life? Does time going back to it's linear state allow someone to just stay in the past and not impact it? Whatever, it's great fun.

    I will say I think it was simply satisfying. It was a satisfying end to this journey and how they concluded many of the story lines. The second half of the movie just rocked and the final battle was on par with any ever. I saw a non-spoiler review that said to see it on the biggest screen you could and I can't say that's wrong. I didn't love the first half as much as I think I could have but the time travel stuff sort of caught me off guard, which you had to expect there'd be an element but I guess I wasn't expecting the whole plot and in that way. Thought it would be more like they'd get the stones back some how and then go try and fix. Plus the magintude of all the stories, just needed to wrap my mind around it. In this regard I already want to see it again and focus on that more.

    I watched Infinity War again last week and was struck by how dark it was from start to finish. Maybe I was in awe of it when I first saw it and knew it was dark obviously, but it just never relents. Then Endgame is almost light through a majority of it. Not that it's bad but it's such a change of pace, especially with what was at stake. That also struck me a bit.

    Still, really, really liked it and it was a great conclusion. It was a super hero movie in the end, but a grand one and one that lived up to the expectations that were built up in my eyes.
    RonClements likes this.
  4. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Just got back, well, after a three-drink dinner with my wife, anyway. I know Marvel superheroes don't get Osacar nominations, let alone the villains, but Josh Brolin sure as hell deserves one. Bravaura performance, especially at the end.
    PS: If I had one criticism, it's that they could ha v made the alien planets look more different from each other. A bright, cheery orb of doom would've worked.
    RonClements likes this.
  5. Madhavok

    Madhavok Well-Known Member

    So, they redo/undo the snap. This is five years later. Is it like nothing even happened? Or, it happened, people are aware, they go about their normal days. Like, Peter goes back to high school. Shouldn't be done with high school five years later?

    The handling of Thor at first I was not a fan. Was a running joke. But, as the movie went on, despite the fat shaming, the Russos did well. He lost his dad, his mom, his hammer, his brother, most of his friends, half of his people, and you get the idea he was barely holding it together through Infinity War. He pretty much spends the entire movie trying to redeem himself and fails. Then he kills Thanos, was for nothing. And here we are. He is at rock bottom.
    Were the Russos looking at a way to get others to shine and power down Thor, because a fit Thor from Ragnarok/IW could wreck Thanos and his army.
    Though, seeing him wielding both hammers was amazing. But you could see he is nowhere near the God he once was. Could barely muster any lightening, seemed resigned with Thanos about to push Stormbreaker in his chest, he wasn't 'lightening up' with his suit. I'm sure a lot of us were waiting for Thor to do a He-Man transformation after his talk with his mom and getting his hammer back, but it never happened. Would have been a cop out to do so IMO.

    Would have liked more Brie Larson. But was glad we got what we received.

    The end: I would have preferred Bucky. There was a point where I thought for sure he was going to get the shield from Steve before going back to put the stones in the right timelines.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
    RonClements likes this.
  6. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    We didn't see it, but I think Steve and Bucky had that talk and Bucky said no. He's probably like Steve, where he's ready to take a step back for a while.
    Bucky certainly seems to know what Steve is doing when he goes back in time, and then gives the parental, "Go ahead, take it. It's yours" nod to Sam when Cap offers him the shield.

    Also something I didn't pick up on until reading some comments here and there today was why Cap took Mjolnir back in time with him. I thought that was just going to be one of his weapons going forward, but he had to return it to Asgard along with the Reality Stone.
  7. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    I think the sequence trashing other time travel movies (which was very funny) was a Miranda warning from the screenwriters no the audience advising them not to get too deep in the weeds on the movie's own time travel stuff and just accept the absurdity for what it was, the device needed to drive the plot.
  8. sgreenwell

    sgreenwell Well-Known Member

    re: The time travel, I understood it to mean that changing things in the past didn't alter things in the "future," because time is kind of a straight line in this version of the Marvel universe. Meaning - I could go back X years in time and steal something, but when I return to my present, that present is still as if I hadn't gone back and taken that diamond. The issue that Tilda Swinton had with this is that if you don't return the Infinity Gems to the time you took them, it creates 'splinter' universes without them. Captain America seemingly returned the stones to where they needed to be.

    My random thoughts on it:

    - I thought it was a really stellar wrap-up to the series, about the best they could have done. I'm positive some of the time travel aspects will be picked apart by fanboys, like in a bad, nitpicky way, that all Fun Things are now. Nice to see some good, emotional wrap-ups for beloved characters.

    - Going forward... It seems like Captain America, Black Widow and Iron Man are out, except for prequel movies. It also seemed like Hawkeye / Ronin would go back to retirement with the family, and Ant-Man might be in the same boat with his daughter. Hulk looked beat-up. Falcon is the new Captain America, and I suppose if they do a new Avengers movie at some point in the future, it'll be him, Black Panther and Spiderman as the core, with maybe Thor folding back in.

    - By the way, Helmsworth won the Chris Wars. Holy heellllll, he's great in this flick.

    - My prediction before the movie came out was that X-Men would be in the post credits scene, but with how the movie ended, that wouldn't have made sense; would have dulled the (surprising) emotional impact. Soooo, I think the Avengers show up at the end of X-Men: Darkest Phoenix Timeline. That one, they might need to goose some people into seeing it, and how long can Disney really resist using that hot, hot, hottttt IP?

    - Dangling thread from this movie: Where's Loki? He obviously escaped at the end of Avengers1, with the stone, and he wasn't at the battle at the end. How'd he get free anyway after A1 originally?
  9. Roscablo

    Roscablo Well-Known Member

    Think Thor is going to be a part of Guardians of the Galaxy now? Sure seemed like it but who knows. Also, didn't he say even if briefly he thought there was a way to reverse the Soul Stone sacrifices? I can't totally remember with all of it but my wife said he did. So that could mean figuring out how to get Black Widow and Gamora back. There also seems to be a Black Widow solo movie in the works, but that could be before all this happens, so who knows there either.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
  10. sgreenwell

    sgreenwell Well-Known Member

    The Black Widow solo movie could be a prequel, or a mid-quel to movie events, since her character isn't really developed much in the actual Avengers movies. Like, they make a big deal of her and Hawkeye, but I don't remember that being a big deal in any of the previous movies; like it seemed like more of a nod to comic book fans.

    From how they portrayed the Soul Stone sacrifices, it didn't seem like the process could be easily reversed. I suppose they could use more Pym particles and pluck a version of Black Widow into the "present" timeline, but they're heroes, and that kind of tinkering generally doesn't end well. It's one thing to reverse half the population being killed off, or trying to, vs. restoring a couple select friends. Banner even stressed that he tried to bring Nat back, and couldn't.

    Thor seems like he'll slot into the Guardians, at least for one movie. I kind of wonder what sort of deal they have Chris Pratt under - maybe he doesn't have the usual seven-movie deal, like the rest of them seemingly had. The rest of the Guardians would seemingly be eager to have that paycheck every 2 to 5 years. Even if Pratt is still there, that group does seem a bit "light" on starpower as opposed to the Avengers. (That was its initial charm, though.)
  11. Roscablo

    Roscablo Well-Known Member

    I agree, it seems like the Soul Stone sacrifices are pretty much done. But then there's the Black Widow movie, which they can go in any different direction with, and also I have a hard time thinking Gamora is done. But I'm sure there are ways around that too. The thing about doing prequels or mid-level stuff is this is supposed to be the end of this sequence and that would be going back to it at least a little. I guess they could just do a whole new Black Widow story too. Thinking too much.

    I think Thor is an awesome fit with the Guardians honestly, not even considering contractual things. I would certainly welcome that.
  12. sgreenwell

    sgreenwell Well-Known Member

    Gamora is still alive at the end though - 2012 Thanos brought his army to the "present," which included 2012 Gamora and 2012 Nebula. Present Nebula killed the old one, but 2012 Gamora is still around. She doesn't have memories of the Guardians, but presumably with no Thanos forcing her into things and Present Nebula being more chaotic good or neutral than chaotic evil, she'll probably be back in the fold with them at some point.

    One other thought that came to my mind while typing a bunch about this today - What was Tony Stark's exact wish? I'm assuming it was something like, "No more Thanos," and usually when something like that has happened in the past, a newer, bigger bad is revealed, one that might have been keeping the older one in check. The stones seem to be gone for good in the "present" timeline, but there are plenty of other weird, Marvel MacGuffins out there.
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