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Are retail jobs going the way of farming and manufacturing?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, May 23, 2013.

  1. Riptide

    Riptide Well-Known Member

    Saw this article earlier. Ties in pretty good here.

    Jaron Lanier: The Internet destroyed the middle class

    Kodak employed 140,000 people. Instagram, 13. A digital visionary says the Web kills jobs, wealth -- even democracy.

    http://bit.ly/17VPpsW
     
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    So all of Kodak's business went to Instagram somehow? Nobody else has created anything that lets people share photos? Nobody makes cameras -- there aren't MORE cameras in more hands today than there was in Kodak's heydey?

    When one company becomes obsolete, it doesn't necessarily mean that it gets replaced by a company of similar size. And even if you operate with that odd premise, how does Kodak become Instagram?

    Every day more photos are taken with an iPhone (from their commercials) than any other camera. Apple employees 72,800 people. Its market cap is much greater than Kodak's ever was.
     
  3. Riptide

    Riptide Well-Known Member

    I have no opinion on the story.
    So it's good to see what others say.
     
  4. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    It's a compelling story, but it's framed incorrectly. To suggest that the internet "killed wealth" in that instance is ridiculous. The internet created wealth when it hastened Kodak's fall. Think of it this way: To get what "we" wanted re: photography took 140,000 people (actually more, of course, because Kodak wasn't the only player in the game). Now we only need a comparative handful of people to get what "we" want re: photography.

    Let's take it down to an even micro-er level. I'm old enough to remember when you shot up a roll of film, then you mailed it off to a local/regional film processor, then you got your prints (and negatives) back in a couple of weeks. If you decided you wanted multiple prints of a particular shot, you then mailed the negative back to the processor and waited another couple of weeks. Now, if I have a snap for which I want multiple prints, I have dozens of places (within a 15-minute drive) that can have those prints waiting for me within an hour and at a relative pittance of a price. I have been made wealthier because I can now get what I want at a lower total cost* (the price of the prints PLUS ancillary costs (time, effort, etc.)), which also means I can get other things that, on the margin, I might not have bought before.

    *And this is not even factoring in how much better the prints would look.
     
  5. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    You're fucking old :D I bet you have a drawer full of unused flash cubes.
     
  6. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    LOL ... you could even use flash cubes to make the point. I do remember using flash bulbs (and then cubes). By the time I got heavily into photography (photography was actually how I backed into journalism), semi-serious amateurs had moved on to electronic flashes. Soon thereafter, everybody used electronic flashes; they were on the cheapest cameras you could get. Because these flashes were durable, it's probably reasonable to assume that fewer people were involved in their production (as compared to the production of flash bulbs/cubes). But that's just another example of fewer people working at something being a sign that "we" as a whole had become wealthier.
     
  7. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    doctorquant:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Quant is right. Kodak had 14,000 employees. We obviously are no worse off when it comes to photography than we were when Kodak dominated that marketplace, so our standard of living has not decreased (with concern to photography), at the same time Kodak became obsolete. We have better photography options, at more reasonable prices, than we had when Kodak dominated that market.

    If it has freed up resources for people to do other things, then we get better photography, done more cheaply, with better technologies. And it has freed up people to do other things that enhance our lives in whole new ways. Google, for example, employs 54,000 people.

    Who is to say that with fewer employees needed to man the photo industry (although I don't necessarily buy that premise: kodak was NOT replaced by instagram any more than the growth of Canon, Nikon, Apple, etc. correlates one to one with the demise of Kodak), if that is what he believes, it didn't create whole new industries producing new goods and services that have made us better off? Maybe Kodak's loss was Google or Samsung's gain.

    And not only has photography and the equipment and resources available gotten better, we get all kinds of other products and services that enhance our lifestyles -- for the same number of workers.

    The whole premise of the forward to his book is flawed on its surface. It makes conclusions without first establishing clear facts.
     
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