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Anyone care to defend civil rights leader Andrew Young?

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by D.Sanchez, Aug 18, 2006.

  1. Gold

    Gold Active Member

    I disagree with what Andrew Young is doing with Wal-Mart, but it will be a respectful disagreement. I'll also wait to see the whole thing of what he said. I will defend Andrew Young - even if he is wrong here, he has been such a force in the civil rights movement and as UN ambassador that his positive contributions far outweigh this.

    What he said about other ethnic groups coming into black communities and ripping them off is a view that is not uncommon and has some merit. However, using Koreans as an example, in the 90s Koreans were often the only ones willing to take the risk of opening a store in impovrished black communities. Leaders of the black community will also tell you that a lot of blacks don't support black-owned businesses - that's not to say blacks should support somebody whose prices are higher and quality of merchandise is lower, but often where they won't give somebody a chance. In the early 70s, McDonald's generally wouldn't open stores in minority urban areas figuring they couldn't make money there. Now, McDonald's has one of the better minority franchise ownership programs around and, for better or for worse, are open in minority communities. They solved the difficulties in opening in this area.

    In the 1970s, Andrew Young appeared on BBC and when asked about race in America and the problems, he drew a lot of controversy by saying something like Britain invented racism. If you want to talk about not being "politically correct" that was it. And you know something - Andrew Young was absolutely right in that comment - if you look at British history, you see the control of Ireland, you see colonialism in India and Africa, and you see a rigid class system for most of the 20th century.
  2. hondo

    hondo Well-Known Member

    Here's betting you wouldn't extend the same understanding and mitigation to Trent Lott, who served his state and country well before making some ill-advised remarks and getting bounced from his Senate leadership position. You were probably calling for his scalp.
  3. Gold

    Gold Active Member

    Lott's comments at Strom Thurmond's 250th birthday party (or was it 300th) were just talk. But what happened was that people looked at Lott's history and saw he was with the Confederate groups and the White Citizen's Councils. Lott's politics were the politics of segregation and that is the reason for the political success of the Republicans in the Deep South. And, as noted on another thread, it was Bill Frist and the Bush White House that did Trent Lott in as majority leader.
  4. HeinekenMan

    HeinekenMan Active Member

    I think where a lot of people believe news reporters have failed us is in holding companies accountable for their actions. This includes companies that are charging outlandish prices. Sure, everybody needs to make a buck and some things can be attributed to market forces. But is it fair to charge someone $8 for a beer at a baseball game or to mark up a two-liter bottle of soda 200 percent? What about the 20-ounce coke at the convenience store? They charge more for that than is being charged for an entire two-liter bottle at the local grocery store.

    And I'm not buying the excuse that it's convenience. These places aren't gas stations first and convenience stores second. They're foremost gas stations. In fact, many of them don't even own the pumps. A lot of these places operate entirely off what they sell. And if they're in a bad neighborhood, they get a lot of breaks. There are tax breaks, TIFs, low lease prices.

    And lets not even get started on places like Six Flags, where you'll pay through the nose for a damned bottle of water or Disney World, where an ice cream cone might cost you $7. Who gives them the right to screw you just because they can? It's like the asshole you knew in college who got girls plastered and then tried to wiggle his way into the promised land.

    Hell, that just might be my next story. I just might run out and do a documentary asking how Disney can charge $25 for a damned Mickey Mouse hat that could be purchased for $5 at a dollar store.
  5. wickedwritah

    wickedwritah Guest

    Nothing personal Heineken, but I'm not into straight socialism. If those businesses want to rip off their customers, let them be.
  6. PopeDirkBenedict

    PopeDirkBenedict Active Member

    I have a revolutionary idea: if you think something is too expensive, don't buy it.
  7. Ledbetter

    Ledbetter Active Member


    Unless I'm flying somewhere for work, I don't buy anything at the airport. I don't know how airports got started doubling prices, but I'm amazed that they've been able to do it for so long.
  8. HeinekenMan

    HeinekenMan Active Member

    First of all, it's not socialism to demand that businesses stop screwing consumers. That's a fucking bullshit answer to a serious problem in this country. Children are living in extreme poverty, and the problem is made worse when assholes screw consumers in poor neighborhoods with impunity.

    Just because the city has the only water lines that connect to your home doesn't mean that they can charge $40 million every time you flush the toilet. The public would scream and yell. But Americans believe they have no recourse when oil companies rake in record profits and Wal-Mart cleans up by selling shit that breaks two weeks after you get it home.

    And let's not even go into hospitals. They charge so damned much for people to go to the emergency room that thousands of people die at home each year for fear of saddling their families with medical bills they can't pay.

    Then you have the fucking movie industry, rich mother fuckers running around having a half-dozen posh weddings while the people who distribute their films are paying so much for licensing and exhibition fees that they are forced to charge $20 for two tickets and $20 more so that a family can enjoy $1 worth of popcorn and soda.

    I suppose I should just lock myself in my house then? How can you people bitch about greedy media company stockholders who cut jobs and quality to make greater profits and then dismiss the fleecing of Americans by stockholders in other companies? Do you think there is any less stockholder pressure on companies to sell less for more in other industries? It's the same shit across the board, and that's why I'd rather buy locally for a small businessman looking to make a fair profit than to buy from some gargantuan entity. Hey, I can pay $4 for my milk if I know that the money is going to stay in my community rather than being shipped off to Arkansas, where it's divvied up and dispersed to a bunch of guys celebrating the tax cuts that have afforded them a chance to upgrade to a larger yacht.

    And what's this don't buy it bullshit? What the fuck are you supposed to do when you go to a baseball game or a theme park and it's 100 degrees in the shade? Slump down in your seat so that your death doesn't disturb the other fans? I went to Sea World last month. Was I supposed to give up my right to eat a meal because they were charging $12 for a shitty cold cut sub? Was I supposed to suffer dehydration?

    Hey, I mean this in the nicest way...Get a freakin' clue.
  9. PopeDirkBenedict

    PopeDirkBenedict Active Member

    No, what you are espousing is socialist in nature. You want price controls because you don't feel like paying money.

    Kids are not living in extreme poverty because you paid $12 for a coldcut sandwich at Sea World. Kids are living in poverty for any number of reasons: they live in high crime areas marked by severe substance abuse, lack of opportunities for social mobility, inept government programs which only increase the dependence on the government. Those businesses in poor neighborhoods charge high prices simply to survive. High premiums for insurance, security and loss to due to theft make it necessary for those bodegas to up their prices simply to keep the doors open.

    Water is an absolute necessity. Being able to see "Talladega Nights" in the movie theatre is not. It's entertainment. If you think movie theatres charge too much, wait until it comes out on DVD at the reasonable price of 14.99, buy microwave popcorn and a 2-liter of Coke and enjoy. Think they charge too much at Sea World? Eat a big meal before going. Sneak a bottle of water in your jeans pocket or your wife/gf's purse. Why don't you try outsmarting those businesses before demanding they bend to your socialist views?
  10. wickedwritah

    wickedwritah Guest

    OK, Heineken, I'll bite. (Tasty bait, by the way.)

    Water is a thing that's called a public good. At least that's what it gets called in economics classes. Yes, there are freeriders. For the most part, though, we all are paying equally for the hookup into the water system, for the water system's operation, etc. Same goes for schools, hospitals, roads, etc.

    Coca-Cola is not a public good. I don't need Coca-Cola to survive. I likely couldn't earn a living if the local interstate was not in existence.

    Do I think corporate America is full of greedy bastards? Yes. Our society just accepts it for the most part, pulling its pants down and taking it up the ass.

    These greedy corporations eventually will find the going tougher when people are too broke to buy their products since they laid off the union workers who were making a decent salary and hire some dude at Wal-Mart scale wages. I think that's part of the problem with the automakers now. Middle-class America is shrinking, and at the same time Ford and GM continue to ram expensive SUVs and pickups down our throats. Who's making enough money to afford to buy one nowadays? No one, unless you have a second income coming in. Either the companies are going to adjust, or they're going to go under. Since their product selection is bloatd toward the top end, these companies are being hit -- and hit hard.
  11. HeinekenMan

    HeinekenMan Active Member

    Pope, we'll just have to disagree. You're obviously blind to reality. The reason that poverty exists is that people equate success with income and tend to hoard it and let it erode their ethics. It takes money to make money. Therefore, those without will continue to be without as long as those who have it continue to fleece the powerless poor.

    The reason that poor people are addicted to drugs is that they see no hope in a country that clearly is run by rich white Republicans (and some Democrats) and their wealthy friends in the business world. A lot of these people are suffering from depression. That's why they call their communities depressed areas. And they don't just choose to give up on their high-paying jobs for the thug lifestyle. They are born into it. They are raised in poverty, and they take advantage of every opportunity to make a buck and buy the things that rich folks take for granted. The difference is that the country club set spouts bullshit about socialism when someone threatens to tap into their wallets. They get away with thieving from people. But when some kid living in extreme poverty steals a damned car stereo, society acts as though it's some terrible crime.

    You need to learn to respect your fellow man. Lest you will never earn the same respect.

    Wicked, I value your comments. They show a higher level of thought than Mr. Pope has showcased. You make a lot of good points, and I admire that you admit the existence of corporate greed. To completely dismiss its role in the growing economic divide would be a horrible disservice. Also, it elicits some fiery retorts from yours truly, as you might see above.

    And Pope, if your paper ever needs someone to cover the Trickle Down Party at the local country club, give me a call. I love to catch piss in a cup.
  12. PopeDirkBenedict

    PopeDirkBenedict Active Member

    Define greed for me. Show me the magic line when earning a profit turns into greed.

    And I'll respect my fellow man enough to contribute to private charities, because I believe that private charity is much more effective than governmental control of the economy.
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