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All-purpose open-wheel (F1, IRL) racing thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by crimsonace, Feb 19, 2007.

  1. PCLoadLetter

    PCLoadLetter Well-Known Member

    Yeah, Mercedes is a class organization that has simply done a wildly better job at virtually everything for the past seven years. You have to admire that... but lord, does it make for some boring races and seasons. Someone needs to step up but we've got this until 2022 at the earliest.

    The tire thing was kind of fascinating because everyone has the same tires but no one had the very specific issues they had in two straight races. Silverstone has some ridiculously high-speed turns but it doesn't seem like a track that is typically THAT hard on tires.

    On a side note I'm still waiting to see how the pandemic affects the teams. Car manufacturers are struggling. Does Mercedes start asking if they're really getting much of a return for their major investment? Does Renault? And why is Haas still there? (My theory is Haas sells as soon as the spending cap goes in place and is just going to cruise along at the back until then.)
  2. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    Aside from the idea of abandoning its legacy, I don't see Mercedes bailing because they are able to filter many of the advances made on the circuit down to their consumer product lines. Also, while Mercedes reported a 30 percent loss in revenue for Q2, it had shut down production during the early days of COVID, so it's still financially on solid footing. If anything, it is struggling to meet demand for some of its vehicles as production ramps back up. I would think MB will continue its F1 pursuits.

    Like Mercedes, teams such as Ferrari, McLaren, Renault and Alfa Romeo can use their F1 R&D to improve their production vehicles, and their F1 teams influence their brand recognition. The teams that don't actually produce cars seem like the more likely candidates to get out of dodge.

    Red Bull lost its association with Aston Martin to Racing Point, which invested heavily in Aston, so I'm assuming Racing point is not going anywhere. Red Bull made significant investment to rebrand Toro Rosso, so you would think both RBR and Alpha Tauri will stick around. Williams and Haas don't seem to make much sense financially, but Williams has some legacy and, as for Haas, I guess when you've got "Fuck You" money, owning an F1 team is a pretty shiny bauble.
  3. PCLoadLetter

    PCLoadLetter Well-Known Member

    Really, the only teams I'm 100% confident will be there in a few years are McLaren and Ferrari. This is who they are. They wouldn't know what to do without F1. I'd have Williams at the top of that list if they didn't have significant money problems. Ultimately I think they'll be there too unless they fully fall into bankruptcy.

    Outside of that...

    Mercedes and Red Bull (and by extension Alpha Tauri) may seriously ask themselves what they are getting for their money. Mercedes has shown itself to be utterly dominant with seven titles in a row. Is an eighth worth another $400 million dollars? Are they getting their money's worth in R&D? I'm not at all sure they are. Same with Red Bull -- they spend a huge amount of money and at this point it's not really increasing their exposure. I think they may stick around just because F1 is so on-brand for them, but if they need to tighten their belts it's an easy thing to walk away from. (And Alpha Tauri is stupid. I don't know why they still own it, but I suspect it's because no one wants to buy a race team based in Faenza.)

    I think Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo will exist in some form but only because they are really Jordan/Spyker/Midland/Force India/Racing Point and Sauber. The manufacturers are just paying to slap their name on a privateer team. (Aston Martin is more complicated because of the ownership, but the company has nothing to do with that car.)

    Renault? They quit when the wind shifts. They'll quit again. They've quit when the team was good, so I have no reason to think they'll stick around while they're not.

    And Haas annoys the shit out of me. I think Gene Haas thought he was smarter than everyone by gaming the system, getting a ton of help from Ferrari and then contracting out for the chassis to save a ton of money. It worked for a season but now the car is shit, the team can't figure out how to fix a car they largely didn't build and their team principal seems like a clown. (And a side note on Haas -- I'm not an American flag waving guy in the slightest, but having an American team and making a big deal about it and then not even considering an American driver when you have a seriously lackluster driver lineup season after season just seems like a total waste.) Anyway, I think Haas sells the team the second he can maximize the money he gets. I don't think he even cares at this point or that team would have been turned upside down after last season.
    garrow and bigpern23 like this.
  4. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    From the outside, it seems as if Mercedes gets plenty of ROI on its F1 team. The hybrid engine technology and energy recovery systems have already made their way into the consumer product lines, the MGU-H is going to be implemented in future AMG models, etc. That’s without getting into branding and other ancillary benefits.
  5. playthrough

    playthrough Moderator Staff Member

    GM executive Mark Reuss is driving the Corvette Pace Car at the Indy 500, hopefully with more skill than he showed a couple years ago at Detroit.

    maumann and Neutral Corner like this.
  6. maumann

    maumann Well-Known Member

    One of the most embarrassing things I've ever seen under caution. That includes Mario clobbering the safety truck (Meadowlands?) and Juan wrecking the air dryer at Daytona.

    Eldon Palmer is giggling from the grave. And the 1971 pace car crash did get a mention in his obit!

    Eldon Palmer 1928 - 2016 - Obituary
    playthrough likes this.
  7. maumann

    maumann Well-Known Member

    Relatively slow speeds for the first practice day at Indianapolis. I think three factors are at play:

    1. The new aeroscreen raises the center of gravity and adds a bunch of weight and drag.
    2. Hot temperatures, compared to typical May, create less horsepower.
    3. Hot temperatures, compared to typical May, decrease downforce and make the track less grippy.

    Concerned that this could be very much a "follow the leader" race. Track position could be paramount.
  8. playthrough

    playthrough Moderator Staff Member

    Ugh. If I wanted to watch a follow-the-leader race on the IMS oval with no one in the stands, I could punch up recent Brickyard 400s on YouTube.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
    Huggy and wicked like this.
  9. maumann

    maumann Well-Known Member

    I don't have NBC Gold, but the videos I saw today were a lot better. More cars passing and running closer. Still not sure exactly what kind of a race we'll get.

    UPDATE: And Alonso gets too aggressive in turn 4, clips the concrete berm which upsets the car and whitewalls the right side. He's fine, the car's not.
  10. maumann

    maumann Well-Known Member

    Thirteen of the top 15 cars in Fast Friday practice were Hondas, with Marco Andretti touching 233 (with a draft). I think the top five no-tow speeds were Andretti cars. They just seem to have a lot more top-end speed down the straights. Chevy drivers said they could trim out to match but that made the cars terrible in the corners.

    So it's possible we see a front row Honda sweep tomorrow .. um, Sunday. Again, it's a four-lap average and I watched several runs this afternoon where the speeds dropped about 1/2 mph on each successive lap. While Marco's been at the top, I think Hunter-Reay and Dixon are the pole favorites. We shall see, won't we?

    Because there are only 33 cars, the smart thing for anybody not driving a Honda is to put a conservative setup on the thing Saturday and take four good laps. Just don't give your mechanics extra reason to hate your guts next week.

    It appears Chevrolet cars seem to be slightly better in race conditions. The Penskes and Ed Carpenter's team (particularly Conor Daly) looked very racy in packs. The real question mark will be how much can you draft AND pass in dirty air? That's been an issue ever since the DW12 chassis was mandated, and IndyCar still hasn't found a magic front wing combination that gives the trailing car enough downforce to pass in traffic.

    Sure wish I could see for myself how this is all playing out, but I don't feel like shelling out the cash for the NBC Gold pass when I can watch the timing and scoring on my phone and tweet with folks in the media center.

    A front row of Spencer Pigot, Zach Veach and Colton Herta would be outstanding.
  11. maumann

    maumann Well-Known Member

    Front row prediction:

    Dixon, Rossi, Hunter-Reay (with Marco just missing)

    Hondas have eight of the nine cars in today's Fast Nine. Penske's best time trial effort yesterday landed them in the fourth row.
  12. garrow

    garrow Well-Known Member

Draft saved Draft deleted

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