Al Oliver ... Hall of Famer?

There is probably an interesting debate to be had about guys, such as Oliver, who disappeared way to quickly from the hall of fame ballot. Brian Kenny, or maybe it was Max Kellerman, made an interesting case for David Cone getting more consideration. I think Cone was off after one year and he was much closer to being a Hall of Famer than he was to being, say, Bob Welch, who was a very good big league pitcher.

I think Lou Whitaker fell off after the first vote. That seems unfair. Parrish, too. And I'm no Tigers fan.

 

BBWAA couldn't give his case a second look if it wanted to. He's off the writer's ballot. The veterans committee has him now, and he has zero chance there.

 

A friend of mine suggested that baseball have a Hall of Very Good, so players like Mattingly, Al Oliver and others could be recognized but not put in the HOF.

As good a player as Oliver was, I don't know that there were many seasons where he was unquestionably the best offensive player on a really good team. On the 1970s Pirate teams, Clemente ,Dave Parker, and Stargell were better offensive players.

 

Still a difference. Mattingly (like Murphy, Belle etc.) was great.

 

Oliver absolutely doesn't belong, but I've never understood this line of thinking. Is Willie McCovey not a Hall of Famer because he wasn't as good as Willie Mays?

 

Where did Perez rank among the Big Red Machine Teams? Eighth? Ninth?

 

Geez, you can pretty much see Eaton Centre from there!

 

No doubt that McCovey belongs in the HOF - 521 home runs while playing the middle of his career in a pitchers' era. McCovey was viewed as one of the hitters who would be feared by pitchers - if not in the top 10, certainly among the top 15 or 20 for a long period. McCovey was a bigger fear factor during his time with Mays from 1968 to 1972.

I don't think Oliver was ever the most feared hitter, or even the second most feared hitter, during his time with the Pirates. He was a really good hitter.

Mattingly was great from 1983 or 84 to 1990, and the numbers he put up were at a Hall of Fame level - he was among the top offensive performers in the American League at the time. He was injured and never got over his back injuries.

The point I was trying to make is that you have to compare HOF candidates to their contemporaries. Gary Carter might not have seemed to compare to Johnny Bench, and I think this worked against him in his first couple of years on the ballot. By the time Carter was elected, there really were few catchers as good offensively and defensively.

 

"Feared hitter" is meaningless.

 

Gold hits this one into the upper deck.

 

It means something to pitchers

 

Mark Whiten was a feared hitter.