1. Welcome to SportsJournalists.com, a friendly forum for discussing all things sports and journalism.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register for a free account to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.
    • Fewer ads.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

AL Cy Young?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Shaggy, Aug 26, 2009.

  1. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    This might be the best argument so far.
     
  2. dreunc1542

    dreunc1542 Active Member

    Mostly agree, but I'd take out the 6 innings, 3-run game. While it may be a "quality start," I don't think a pitcher is getting screwed by losing that game.
     
  3. HandsomeHarley

    HandsomeHarley Well-Known Member

    Completely biased, I am. You have been warned.

    I remember the 1970s and '80s well. Whenever a player on a last-place team was up for MVP (read Andre Dawson), the argument was always that it's not about the place of the team; it's about the value of the player.

    Then, when it was some big-market player on a first-place team, the argument became it's about how that player led his team to the division title.

    It works interchangeably, seemingly only when it involves a big-market player.

    That's why Zack Greinke won't win the AL Cy Young Award.

    Greinke deserves it. He has the best ERA, second-most strikeouts, most quality starts (I think), and has had the worst run support in the history of Cy Young candidates.

    But he deserves it.

    Carry on.
     
  4. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    sounds like a bunch of woe is me small market bullshit.

    Greinke, at this point deserves it and I believe will get it. This coming from a Blue Jay fan.
     
  5. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    I thought about that, too, but I listed it anyway because a guy like Beckett has gotten no decisions in games where he's given up five, seven and eight runs this season. In that game, Greinke struck out nine and walked two. Hernandez aside, for most of the other Cy Young candidates, that would likely be enough to get the win given the run support they get.
     
  6. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    Sabathia is 15-7, has won 5 in a row with a hot August, including 2 wins over the Sox. What if he ends up 20-8 with his sub-4.00 ERA?

    But then you'd have the argument that he gets to pitch with that loaded offense to support him.
     
  7. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    I think "hoi polloi" means the commoners, the unwashed. Its a derogatory term. I don't think that's what you meant there.

    Carry on.
     
  8. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    He should have no chance unless that ERA is right around 3. A pitcher can only control how he pitches, he has no control over his offence, that's why wins are a terrible stat to solely base who wins the cy young on. It's also why Jack Morris isn't a hall of famer.
     
  9. Oz

    Oz Well-Known Member

    Best run support among the Cy Young candidates, according to the link I posted above (7.43 runs per game) compared to Greinke's 4.72, which is dead last. Add in that Greinke wins head-to-head in ...

    ERA -- 2.43 to 3.59
    Runs -- 57 to 79
    Earned runs -- 49 to 74
    Strikeouts -- 197 to 148
    Walks -- 36 to 48
    Complete games -- 5 to 2
    Shutouts -- 2 to 1
     
  10. Diabeetus

    Diabeetus Active Member

    And

    HR allowed -- 11 to 17
    WHIP (narrowly) -- 1.12 to 1.13
     
  11. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    You're right.

    I read something (a long time ago) where hoi polloi was used to denote the elite, and that's why it always stuck. Weird. Maybe I didn't pick up on some kind of blue font in the reference.

    Oh well. Live and learn. I stand corrected.

    So then ...

    Against the elite of the AL -- Boston, New York, Chicago, L.A., Texas, Tampa Bay -- Halladay is 7-5 with 2 no-decisions ...
     
  12. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    The weird thing is, until a year or two ago, I thought the same thing. "Hoi polloi" sounds elitist to my ears.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page