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A theft is a theft?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by The Big Ragu, Dec 5, 2013.

  1. MTM

    MTM Well-Known Member

    And most of use have used free wifi and electricity for hours at McDonald's to file an article and only purchased a $1 soda, which we refilled three times.
     
  2. waterytart

    waterytart Active Member

    Given that you see it at every airport in the country, I'd guess there's some legal theory similar to easement that says "Yes," unless it's explicitly forbidden.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  3. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    Practically, it's like putting the toothpaste back in the tube at this point, but I'm guessing there's some legal theory that says the opposite as well.
     
  4. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    There's a difference by degree issue here: Charging an iPhone (from 0% to 100%) requires about 9.5 watt-hours. The average retail rate for electricity in the U.S. is about $0.12 per kilowatt-hour, so we're talking, on average, about $0.0011 for one charge. A laptop's about five times that (best I can cipher), so we're talking about $0.0055. Charging a car involves a helluva lot more electricity. These things -- the random airport/library guy charging his phone/laptop and the dickwad running an orange extension cord to his EV -- are simply not the same things.
     
  5. printit

    printit Member

    The Model Penal Code suggests stealing any good under $50 should be a Class C misdemeanor. States define Class A, B, and C misdemeanors differently. (the state I am in does not have Class C misdemeanors, for example). This is why I still don't understand the arrest, even though I understand the criminal charge. This should have been handled by criminal summons.

    The mens rea for theft is intent. Generally the state has to show dishonesty. If the accused has a good faith belief in a legal claim of right (thought the owner had consented) or a general belief that the owner of the property would have consented, then that is not stealing. If I honestly thought you were OK with me taking a coke out of your refrigerator, then I didn't commit theft. (I would still be responsible to you civilly for the cost of the coke).This is why I don't think someone using the electricity in the library or airport is stealing because it appears by custom that this behavior is allowed, creating a good faith belief that the electricity is there for public use. This is why I said in a previous post that the trespass was key to me. This guy had no legitimate reason to be on the property to begin with (I think his son was getting a tennis lesson there, which was apparently also not allowed) and had been told before he couldn't use this outlet. Don't agree with the arrest, do agree with the charge.
     
  6. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Between $.75 and $1.00, depending where you live, per hour to charge a car with a commercial level-two charger.

    http://www.evelectricity.com/charging/

    Interesting to the conversation, though...

    You may want to ask as some car owners have reported being written up for stealing electricity. Sometimes it is is better to ask for forgivenes than to ask for permission. Whatever approach you go with make sure you think it through.
     
  7. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    School divisions pay between $1.00 and $2.50 per square foot for utilities each year. When you consider an elementary is between 50,000 and 100,000 square feet, a middle is 100,000 and 200,000 square feet and a high school between 125,000 and 300,000 square feet, you can see how a buck here or there would not be noticed.

    My division has about 24,000 students, 3.7 million square feet and pays $8,000,000 a year in utilities.
     
  8. Armchair_QB

    Armchair_QB Well-Known Member

    So, basically, if you own an electric car go ahead and steal what you need to run it.
     
  9. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    I know grocery stores are preparing to place these docking stations in their parking lots for people to use for free while they are shopping.

    But at a school, I doubt this looked upon this as a community charging station. But, monetary value of what was taken is very small.
     
  10. Shoeless Joe

    Shoeless Joe Active Member

    Liability is the biggest reason. All of our facilities are locked and posted that written permission from the school is required for use. It doesn't matter that it's county owned property. If someone had the run of a school's facilities, you know it would only be a matter of time before someone fell, hurt themselves, and brought a suit against the school system.

    Outdoor facilities are no different than the school itself. We don't leave those unlocked at night and on weekends for people to go play pickup basketball in the gym or hold family gatherings in the classrooms just because they pay taxes.
     
  11. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    It's funny. The local university leaves its tennis gates unlocked all the time and doesn't care who plays there or when. Team comes out for practice and never tells us to leave (or even move).

    But they do require a parking pass . . . otherwise you're at risk of a citation.
     
  12. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    It's OK to use some, but not others.

    Playground equipment usually is open to the community, and I think tennis courts should be, also, but fields, especially soccer, should not be because people can tear up the field. Especially if adults play soccer on a soaked field for a few days in a row.
     
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