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A religious and philosophical question

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by hockeybeat, Jan 30, 2008.

  1. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

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  2. Buck

    Buck Well-Known Member

    Very interesting.
    If every quantum moment produces multiple outcomes in an ever expanding network of reality branches, an all-knowing god knows the outcome of every quantum moment and the end of each reality branch.
    So when god told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil it already knew that they would eat the fruit and that they wouldn't eat the fruit.
     
  3. Buck

    Buck Well-Known Member

    According to Catholic doctrine, suicide is a mortal sin, and if you die with a mortal sin upon your soul unabsolved you go to hell.
     
  4. writing irish

    writing irish Active Member

    I definitely believe there's lots of randomness. I think some things really do happen for a reason, but I also think that plenty of occurrences have neither rhyme nor reason.

    It'd be pretty funny if The Divine Comedy were Church doctrine. :D

    I can think of an SJ Divine Comedy. Creamora has to watch JDV videos until the end of time, boots has to take it up the ass from a demon with a barbed phallus, the far-right-wingers have to work 12-hour days in Malaysian sweatshops, etc.

    And Buck, yes, I think that synthesis of quantum theory and theology makes sense. The whole idea of God makes more sense when you try to consider Him as a being beyond our understanding rather than as a Very Powerful Dude.
     
  5. Angola!

    Angola! Guest

    I think God could be all-powerful if he wanted to, but by giving humans free will he decided to not meddle in things as much.
    As far as things being predetermined, that is a Calvinistic philosophy. John Calvin broke out of the Catholic church at some point, can't remember when, because of his beliefs of a preordained amount of people going to heaven.
    Actually, I think Calvin broke off of Martin Luther (not King Jr., but the original).
    Luther was tired of the Catholic church telling people to give money to the church to help their dead relatives reach higher places in heaven, so Luther left and started the Protestant Church.
    From there, Calvin and John Wesley split off, with Calvin going toward predetermination and Wesley going toward Holiness and the work of the Holy Spirit.
    The church I grew up in, Nazarenes, is a Wesleyan church. They aren't quite as far out as some Holiness churches, like we didn't speak in tongues or anything, but they do believe a lot in having Holiness affect your entire life and how you live.
    I should remember a lot more than this, but I switched from a religion major to an English major before I got into church history.
    I'll shoot an e-mail to my brother-in-law and sister, who are pastors. They should be able to help.
     
  6. writing irish

    writing irish Active Member

    True, but that's not Biblical. That's Sacred Tradition.
     
  7. I believe that de Selby's underwater dialogue with St. Augustine in The Dalkey Archive pretty much settles the question, especially about the five St. Patricks.
    That said, I wonder what the theological answer to slow suicide -- suicide by drink by drugs, by food -- is. Does Himself punsih us for killing ourselves without really knowing, or being aware, that we're doing it? If so, and the unaware suicide goes to heaven and the aware one goes to hell, isn't god rewarding ignorance?
     
  8. sportschick

    sportschick Active Member

    I'd just like to point out that Henry the Eighth was the first to split from the Catholic Church, not Luther as is popularly believed. Henry's desire for a male child (and to no longer be connected to Spain and the Hapsburgs) led him to break off from the Pope (aka the bishop of rome) and form the Anglican Church before Luther officially separated from the Catholics.

    Luther started his own church shortly thereafter, and he and Henry despised each other. Henry's vision was for his church to be exactly like the Catholic Church, just headed by him instead of the Pope.
     
  9. writing irish

    writing irish Active Member

    Second Church, same as the First!
    "I'm Ennery the Eighth, I am..."
     
  10. Catholics without calisthenics, as Dan Jenkins said.
     
  11. Buck

    Buck Well-Known Member

    It's a little Robert Anton Wilson-esque.
    Of course, traveling the reality branch along which Adam and Eve did not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil creates another conundrum.
    Without the original sin, Adam and Eve still exist without knowledge of good and evil. They lack understanding.
    So they exercised their free will and chose to follow god's will, but they didn't really choose goodness because they don't know what good and evil are.
    They only chose to obey and to remain ignorant. Ignorance may be bliss, but can it really be considered good?
    The felix culpa allows for salvation because it allows for an informed choice. Without eating the fruit, we have free will and choose to ignorantly obey.
    By eating the fruit, we disobey, but we open the possibility of real goodness, because then we understand what good is and what evil is.
     
  12. Buck

    Buck Well-Known Member

    There's a lot of doctrine and dogma that is official but not Biblical.
     
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