59 for Stuart Appleby

hondo · Aug 3, 2010

JC said:

hondo said:

JC said:

hondo said:

Tour pros attack par-5s with greater impunity than par-4s. Indeed, there are many, many, many occasions at a Tour even where the field average for a par-5 is actually lower than the field average on 2-3 of the more difficult par-4s. Plus, you can hit one lousy shot on a par-5 and still make a birdie. One lousy shot on a par-4 usually won't yield a bird.

I get it about the basic math. But it's not that simple in reality.

At the highest levels of golf, shooting a 59 is easier the more par-5s you have on a course.

That said, 59 is pretty freaking good regardless of par-70, 71 or 72.
Click to expand...

My god Hondo, you really can't be this stunned.

It is easier to go under par the more par 5's there are, it is not easier to shoot 59 the more par 5's there are.
Click to expand...

Well, you're entitled to your wrong opinion. And what the hell do you mean by "stunned" in this context?
Also, remember this: par-5 holes are not only birdie holes but the pros consider them eagle holes. Lot easier to putt for eagle four times in one round (as can happen on a par-72) than twice (on a par-70).

You keep getting hung up on the math. I know 13-under is better than 11-under, theoretically. But from a tactical standpoint, easier for a 59 on a par-72. Think outside the box, will you?
Click to expand...

You are so wrong it's laughable. I guess we'd be seeing a lot more 59's if it was par 90, you know, more par 5's and all.

What is the average score on a par 5 and the average score on a par 4? There's the flippin answer.
Click to expand...

Just because I don't see it your way doesn't make me wrong.
Of the five 59s on the PGA Tour, the first four were NOT on a par-70 course. There's a clue right there.

RickStain · Aug 3, 2010

What percentage of PGA courses are par 70?

BB Bobcat · Aug 3, 2010

BB Bobcat said:

I took the averages from all that group (spreadsheet here), and the average score on all par 4s was 4.05, and the average on all par 5s was 4.69.

4.05 < 4.69
Click to expand...

Hondo, we're waiting?

JC · Aug 3, 2010

hondo said:

JC said:

hondo said:

JC said:

hondo said:

Tour pros attack par-5s with greater impunity than par-4s. Indeed, there are many, many, many occasions at a Tour even where the field average for a par-5 is actually lower than the field average on 2-3 of the more difficult par-4s. Plus, you can hit one lousy shot on a par-5 and still make a birdie. One lousy shot on a par-4 usually won't yield a bird.

I get it about the basic math. But it's not that simple in reality.

At the highest levels of golf, shooting a 59 is easier the more par-5s you have on a course.

That said, 59 is pretty freaking good regardless of par-70, 71 or 72.
Click to expand...

My god Hondo, you really can't be this stunned.

It is easier to go under par the more par 5's there are, it is not easier to shoot 59 the more par 5's there are.
Click to expand...

Well, you're entitled to your wrong opinion. And what the hell do you mean by "stunned" in this context?
Also, remember this: par-5 holes are not only birdie holes but the pros consider them eagle holes. Lot easier to putt for eagle four times in one round (as can happen on a par-72) than twice (on a par-70).

You keep getting hung up on the math. I know 13-under is better than 11-under, theoretically. But from a tactical standpoint, easier for a 59 on a par-72. Think outside the box, will you?
Click to expand...

You are so wrong it's laughable. I guess we'd be seeing a lot more 59's if it was par 90, you know, more par 5's and all.

What is the average score on a par 5 and the average score on a par 4? There's the flippin answer.
Click to expand...

Just because I don't see it your way doesn't make me wrong.
Of the five 59s on the PGA Tour, the first four were NOT on a par-70 course. There's a clue right there.
Click to expand...

Look at the stats BB Bobcat provided and tell me again how you're not wrong.

playthrough · Aug 3, 2010

hondo said:

JC said:

hondo said:

JC said:

hondo said:

Tour pros attack par-5s with greater impunity than par-4s. Indeed, there are many, many, many occasions at a Tour even where the field average for a par-5 is actually lower than the field average on 2-3 of the more difficult par-4s. Plus, you can hit one lousy shot on a par-5 and still make a birdie. One lousy shot on a par-4 usually won't yield a bird.

I get it about the basic math. But it's not that simple in reality.

At the highest levels of golf, shooting a 59 is easier the more par-5s you have on a course.

That said, 59 is pretty freaking good regardless of par-70, 71 or 72.
Click to expand...

My god Hondo, you really can't be this stunned.

It is easier to go under par the more par 5's there are, it is not easier to shoot 59 the more par 5's there are.
Click to expand...

Well, you're entitled to your wrong opinion. And what the hell do you mean by "stunned" in this context?
Also, remember this: par-5 holes are not only birdie holes but the pros consider them eagle holes. Lot easier to putt for eagle four times in one round (as can happen on a par-72) than twice (on a par-70).

You keep getting hung up on the math. I know 13-under is better than 11-under, theoretically. But from a tactical standpoint, easier for a 59 on a par-72. Think outside the box, will you?
Click to expand...

You are so wrong it's laughable. I guess we'd be seeing a lot more 59's if it was par 90, you know, more par 5's and all.

What is the average score on a par 5 and the average score on a par 4? There's the flippin answer.
Click to expand...

Just because I don't see it your way doesn't make me wrong.
Of the five 59s on the PGA Tour, the first four were NOT on a par-70 course. There's a clue right there.
Click to expand...

The fact that the first four were not on a par-70 course is too small a sample size to make any distinction. And there are far more par-72 courses on Tour than 70s, especially in the rank-and-file events. There are a few more 70s popping up today because, like at the Greenbrier, they're having to take older courses and fit the modern bombing PGA Tour player on them and the only way is to take two par-5s and turn them into monster 4s. But par-72 is still the norm, and I think the average golfer--while being amazed at any 59--is slightly more amazed at a par-72 59 because of the 13-under-par vs. 11-under-par.

All that said, as a big golf fan I'm thrilled that we're at least debating it here.

hondo · Aug 3, 2010

BB Bobcat said:

BB Bobcat said:

I took the averages from all that group (spreadsheet here), and the average score on all par 4s was 4.05, and the average on all par 5s was 4.69.

4.05 < 4.69
Click to expand...

Hondo, we're waiting?
Click to expand...

Doesn't mean a thing in terms of how players play a course, that day, and manage to shoot a 59. You guys simply won't understand that the more par-5 holes there are, the better the chance, and that's why it took a long time for someone to shoot 59 on a par-70.
Done with this debate. I made more than a few points. You don't agree fine ... but go ask some Tour players and see what they tell you. You'll be surprised.

JC · Aug 3, 2010

hondo said:

BB Bobcat said:

BB Bobcat said:

I took the averages from all that group (spreadsheet here), and the average score on all par 4s was 4.05, and the average on all par 5s was 4.69.

4.05 < 4.69
Click to expand...

Hondo, we're waiting?
Click to expand...

Doesn't mean a thing in terms of how players play a course, that day, and manage to shoot a 59. You guys simply won't understand that the more par-5 holes there are, the better the chance, and that's why it took a long time for someone to shoot 59 on a par-70.
Done with this debate. I made more than a few points. You don't agree fine ... but go ask some Tour players and see what they tell you. You'll be surprised.
Click to expand...

So they make birdie on a par 5 which means they take a 4, it is total score not how low under par you are. You should be done with this debate, you've made an ass of yourself.

RickStain · Aug 3, 2010

Honestly, this is as stupid as someone arguing that 3=2.

Every single point you've made supports the idea that it's easier to get a low score under par on a par-72. But that's not the same as shooting a 59.

JC · Aug 3, 2010

Junkie said:

I'm going to go out and shoot a 59 on a par-72 course and a par-70 course. I'll let you guys know which one's easier. Stay tuned.
Click to expand...

Front or back nine?

playthrough · Aug 3, 2010

In my best golf dreams I make three birdies in a row, and then maybe get with a hot drink-cart gal. 59 is inconceivable.

BB Bobcat · Aug 3, 2010

Par 4 average score 4.05
Par 5 average score 4.69

Hondo: "You need less strokes on a Par 5."

JC · Aug 3, 2010

Stop confusing Hondo with facts.

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59 for Stuart Appleby

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