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3rd-Grade Basketball. REALLY necessary to full-court press the entire game?

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by exmediahack, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. blacktitleist

    blacktitleist Member

    I used to run a league that was from ages 5 and up. I coached high school and AAU ball with some success, and I like to think I ran the league with the purpose of progressively building skill development for the various age levels.

    This meant restricting defenses by age group (5-6 had to stay within the international lanes, man or zone, no pressing); 7-8 year olds had to stay within the 3-point line (man or zone, no pressing, but could extend to half-court the last two minutes of the second and fourth quarters); 9-10 could play any defense in the half-court and only press during the last two minutes of second and fourth quarters; 11-12, 13-14 were allowed to press at any time during game unless they led by 10 points or more.

    Teams that kept the press on up more than 10 were assessed immediate technicals. Also had to toss a few coaches for the remainer of games, or suspend them a game or two for not adhering to rules. There were a few who didn't quite understand that the purpose of the league was skill development and participation, not trying to re-live some childhood angst of theirs.

    For the younger kids (ages 5-8), to help avoid those 10-7 games, before each quarter, the five kids in the game got to shoot a free throw that would count toward final score. This gave every kid a chance to score "during the game."

    Incidentally, one of the best coaches I had was a sportswriter with a paper in the next town over.

    I think we had a pretty good balance of allowing coaches to coach a little bit in regards to defenses, as well as opportunities for every kid in the league to feel that they got a chance to contribute.

    Spawned a few really good players during my run there, including a couple who are now enjoying success as professionals in Europe, and one NBA player who also played in the 2008 Olympics.
     
  2. crimsonace

    crimsonace Well-Known Member

    One thing I've found as a high school coach is that all of these John Wooden-wannabe youth & middle school coaches teach kids all kinds of gimmick defenses, that they come in to high school with no clue how to play basic man-to-man defense -- we have to go back to simple positioning and fundamentals, because all they've done is learn presses and zones and expect "the defense" to get steals.

    Our former eighth-grade coach a few years ago handed the opponent a lineup card and the opposing coach said "we haven't seen a man-to-man team all year, so I haven't had to fill one out."
     
  3. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Wow, you must play in a pretty informal league. Every league I ever coached or played in adhered to the actual rules of basketball, which state you must fill out your roster legibly in the scorebook before the game.

    Even if all you played was the most passive and reactionary zone defense imaginable, it would probably be of some peripheral interest to know, "number 12 has 22 points in the first half."

    And the point about gimmick defenses is on point, but when leagues adopt a fanatical insistence on nothing but absolutely straight man-to-man, every team turns into a one-man-show festival of ballhogging and isolation plays.
     
  4. Bob Cook

    Bob Cook Active Member

    I think where we're all in agreement is that whether you play man or zone, the worst thing for any kid's defensive development is to be on a team that presses frequently, or plays a defense where the object is to get steals, not defend in the half court. All that happens is the teams with the biggest and most athletically developed players dominate, and not only does no one learn half-court defense, but they don't even learn half-court offense. And even for the players who are dominant, eventually everyone catches up, and no one, least of all the former studs, has a clue on how to play defense.
     
  5. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    Are you a Knicks scout?
     
  6. TwoGloves

    TwoGloves Well-Known Member

    That would have made my old desker's head explode. One of the first rants I heard him make was about "basic fundamentals." He said they're the same thing. Basics are fundamentals, fundamentals are basics. Somewhere, he's rolling over in his grave.
     
  7. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    That is what cracks me up the most about some people - they brag about their record as a youth coach because they've "figured out" they have taller kids who are better athletes than most of their opponents so they sit in some zone, like a 1-3-1 and get a zillion steals and fastbreak lay-ups and win games that way in fifth and sixth grade

    Then, they bitch that the coaches in high school, like Crimsonace, are "screwing up my players, man we won ten tournaments a year when I had them......." because said kids can't defend anyone and are no longer bigger and stronger than everyone else and thus can't get on the floor or worse, can't make the team.

    I think guys like Crimsonace - high school coaches -- have to be pissed off at the proliferation of "youth travel leagues and tournaments" because it has spawned a bunch of idiots more focused on winning medals and trophies than teaching kids how to play the fucking game.
     
  8. crimsonace

    crimsonace Well-Known Member

    Difference between scorebook (which is required) and lineup card, which is done as a courtesy to the opposing team's coach so they can match players up at the start of the game. If you play zone, you don't need to get one from the opposing team. So many middle school girls teams play exclusively zone, they don't

    And, as far as the game devolving into a bunch of one-on-one 1990s-style NBA iso-ball, good luck getting five third-grade girls in the right spots to run any sets. With high school officials running the show, they usually know the difference between shooting a double-team and being in help position and "playing zone."
     
  9. crimsonace

    crimsonace Well-Known Member

    If you talk to a lot of HS coaches in my area, they'll have a boatload of horror stories about players from AAU ball being uncoachable and fundamentally deficient.

    One thing that's happened in my area is the youth teams are becoming school and community-based -- e.g., instead of the All-Star Hoopsters playing the All-Star Dunkers in AAU all spring, it's Podunk playing West Bumbleburg. The high school program has a lot of control over who coaches and what the kids are taught, and it is working to reduce the influence of the next Adolph Rupps. Still, who wins these leagues? Teams that do nothing but full-court press (but can't play a lick of half-court offense or defense).
     
  10. zagoshe

    zagoshe Well-Known Member

    Crimson - What is the worst kind of player that comes your way -- I would think the really good athlete who was always a star and never learned to play and always won games because they let him fastbreak and cherry pick and thus won't listen to you and has parents who constantly brag about him being 5th-grade All-American.....
     
  11. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Passing, moving without the ball and shot selection are the three areas I see regressed dramatically in the past 10-15 years.
     
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