2020 Pro Football Hall of Fame Class

LanceyHoward · Aug 6, 2019

Della9250 said: ↑

FMIA: In Remembrance of Don Banks, an NFL Conscience and a True Friend

1. I think I hope the Pro Football Hall of Fame thought of all the unintended consequences when it announced the new policy for the class of 2020, the Centennial Class for the Hall. There will be a class of 10 senior candidates, two coaches and three contributors eligible for enshrinement in 2020. There will also be five modern-era finalists, as usual. That’s a potential of a class of 20 people. In recent years, the maximum class has been eight: five modern-era finalists and a combination of three contributors (including coaches) and seniors (men retired for at least 25 years). The difference this year, the Hall’s Board of Directors announced Friday, is that the 15 among the non-modern-era candidates will be nominated as a bloc by what the Hall said would be a 25-member blue-ribbon committee comprised of current Hall selectors and former players and league officials. A few thoughts:

• I’m a fan of addressing the backlog of Senior candidates from past decades, men whose cases have never been heard. I am not a fan of selecting the 15 in a bloc. It sets a precedent—a bad one, I believe—even though the Hall clearly intends this to be a one-time event. If you change the rules once, what’s to stop the Hall from changing them again?

• Let’s say I believe 11 of the 15 nominees are solid and should be admitted, and let’s say I’m waffling on one, and let’s say I do not think three are Hall of Famers. Should I vote yes on the entire class as a bloc, knowing I will be voting yes on three or four who I believe do not belong? For me, that would be a very tough call. An unnecessary one, I believe. We should vote on the 15 one by one, the way the Hall has been admitting the legends of the game since 1963. Though a few of these names will be altogether obscure (Lavvie Dilweg of the old Packers, for instance), my experience in almost three decades on the committee is that there’s tremendous respect for the early years of the league, and probably all of those candidates would be approved—in my opinion—by getting 80 percent of the vote from the 48 selectors.

• The key to this class should be the old timers. We are fixated on the three or four decades when getting outraged about who’s in and who isn’t. What about the first 40 years of the league? This blue-ribbon committee, whoever is on it, should be focused on righting the wrongs of pre-1960 football. Ralph Hay, the owner of the Canton Bulldogs, the first power franchise in history, and the man who led the founding of pro football in 1920, should be one of the contributors. Clark Shaughnessy, vital in the college and pro games in developing the forward pass, should be one of the coaches. Another good candidate? Buddy Parker, a starting back on one Lions championship team and the head coach of two other Detroit title teams, deserves a hard look too. I am bullish on the mantra of Rick Gosselin, one of the smartest football minds on the committee: “This should be a Centennial Class, focusing a lot on the early years of the game.” This should not be the cleanup class for hotly debated candidates of the last 30 years, in my opinion.

• Another issue … Let’s say that a couple of the popular old-timer candidates—Tom Flores, for instance, or Joe Klecko—get bypassed by the blue ribbon committee. (I could use any deserving player. I used Flores and Klecko because there is passion behind the cases for both.) And let’s say big Klecko supporters think he got the shaft. Or let’s say the multiple California voters in Flores’ corner get ticked off he’s not one of the 15. What happens if one or more of those voters, angry at the process already, vetoes the entire class? Not saying it will happen and not saying it’s probable. I am saying it’s possible. What a black eye that would be, if enough voters vetoed the class so that none of the candidates got in.

On that score, my advice to the blue-ribboners: Do not put Paul Tagliabue on the list of three contributors. He’s too divisive a figure right now.

• You will think, “Oh, he’s pissed the Hall of Fame is bypassing him to admit this class.” Not exactly, though I’m not happy about that part of it either. We as a group of 48 selectors are told the Hall is so grateful for our service and the homework we do and the passion put into selection the class each year. I can hear those words in my head right now. So now the Hall plans a process to admit 15 people to Canton without the 48 selectors as gatekeepers as they normally are. Since 1963, the selection process has been the same. And now, instead of whittling lists of seniors, contributors and coaches down the way it’s been done for 56 years and 56 Hall classes and 326 Hall of Famers, this class is going to be decided in a brand-new way.

The bloc of 15 candidates will need 39 yes votes. That means if 10 people vote no on the bloc, and none of the 15 get in, the Hall of Fame will have major egg on the face, and there will be no Centennial Class.

• Will this class have an asterisk? Something like: * Admitted under different voting standards by the Hall in 2020. That certainly won’t be noted by the Hall of Fame, but it’s the way I’ll think of the Class of 2020.
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Why is Paul Tagliabue divisive? He stabilized relations with the union. I know he is criticized for giving the players to much money. But franchise values continued to appreciate during his tenure.

What makes him unworthy?

Chef2 · Aug 6, 2019

Warren Zevon

Della9250 · Aug 6, 2019

LanceyHoward said: ↑

Why is Paul Tagliabue divisive? He stabilized relations with the union. I know he is criticized for giving the players to much money. But franchise values continued to appreciate during his tenure.

What makes him unworthy?
Click to expand...

The biggest knock on him from the outside looking in is the lack of player safety/concussion stuff that has been viewed differently in hindsight.

But I think King is speaking about him from the voter's perspective and what has been said in the room. Tagliabue has been a finalist four times, including two years ago in his first time as a contributor's nominee, and can't get the votes.

Since they added the Contributor designation, seven of the eight have been inducted. He is the lone no vote.

So Kings is basically saying -- if you put him on the list and you are voting yes/no on everyone at once -- he's a guy who might get five or six nos and if there are other players/contributors/coaches who draw no votes for being on the list, you'd submarine the whole class since 10 nos equals no induction.

CD Boogie · Aug 6, 2019

Della9250 said: ↑

FMIA: In Remembrance of Don Banks, an NFL Conscience and a True Friend

1. I think I hope the Pro Football Hall of Fame thought of all the unintended consequences when it announced the new policy for the class of 2020, the Centennial Class for the Hall. There will be a class of 10 senior candidates, two coaches and three contributors eligible for enshrinement in 2020. There will also be five modern-era finalists, as usual. That’s a potential of a class of 20 people. In recent years, the maximum class has been eight: five modern-era finalists and a combination of three contributors (including coaches) and seniors (men retired for at least 25 years). The difference this year, the Hall’s Board of Directors announced Friday, is that the 15 among the non-modern-era candidates will be nominated as a bloc by what the Hall said would be a 25-member blue-ribbon committee comprised of current Hall selectors and former players and league officials. A few thoughts:

• I’m a fan of addressing the backlog of Senior candidates from past decades, men whose cases have never been heard. I am not a fan of selecting the 15 in a bloc. It sets a precedent—a bad one, I believe—even though the Hall clearly intends this to be a one-time event. If you change the rules once, what’s to stop the Hall from changing them again?

• Let’s say I believe 11 of the 15 nominees are solid and should be admitted, and let’s say I’m waffling on one, and let’s say I do not think three are Hall of Famers. Should I vote yes on the entire class as a bloc, knowing I will be voting yes on three or four who I believe do not belong? For me, that would be a very tough call. An unnecessary one, I believe. We should vote on the 15 one by one, the way the Hall has been admitting the legends of the game since 1963. Though a few of these names will be altogether obscure (Lavvie Dilweg of the old Packers, for instance), my experience in almost three decades on the committee is that there’s tremendous respect for the early years of the league, and probably all of those candidates would be approved—in my opinion—by getting 80 percent of the vote from the 48 selectors.

• The key to this class should be the old timers. We are fixated on the three or four decades when getting outraged about who’s in and who isn’t. What about the first 40 years of the league? This blue-ribbon committee, whoever is on it, should be focused on righting the wrongs of pre-1960 football. Ralph Hay, the owner of the Canton Bulldogs, the first power franchise in history, and the man who led the founding of pro football in 1920, should be one of the contributors. Clark Shaughnessy, vital in the college and pro games in developing the forward pass, should be one of the coaches. Another good candidate? Buddy Parker, a starting back on one Lions championship team and the head coach of two other Detroit title teams, deserves a hard look too. I am bullish on the mantra of Rick Gosselin, one of the smartest football minds on the committee: “This should be a Centennial Class, focusing a lot on the early years of the game.” This should not be the cleanup class for hotly debated candidates of the last 30 years, in my opinion.

• Another issue … Let’s say that a couple of the popular old-timer candidates—Tom Flores, for instance, or Joe Klecko—get bypassed by the blue ribbon committee. (I could use any deserving player. I used Flores and Klecko because there is passion behind the cases for both.) And let’s say big Klecko supporters think he got the shaft. Or let’s say the multiple California voters in Flores’ corner get ticked off he’s not one of the 15. What happens if one or more of those voters, angry at the process already, vetoes the entire class? Not saying it will happen and not saying it’s probable. I am saying it’s possible. What a black eye that would be, if enough voters vetoed the class so that none of the candidates got in.

On that score, my advice to the blue-ribboners: Do not put Paul Tagliabue on the list of three contributors. He’s too divisive a figure right now.

• You will think, “Oh, he’s pissed the Hall of Fame is bypassing him to admit this class.” Not exactly, though I’m not happy about that part of it either. We as a group of 48 selectors are told the Hall is so grateful for our service and the homework we do and the passion put into selection the class each year. I can hear those words in my head right now. So now the Hall plans a process to admit 15 people to Canton without the 48 selectors as gatekeepers as they normally are. Since 1963, the selection process has been the same. And now, instead of whittling lists of seniors, contributors and coaches down the way it’s been done for 56 years and 56 Hall classes and 326 Hall of Famers, this class is going to be decided in a brand-new way.

The bloc of 15 candidates will need 39 yes votes. That means if 10 people vote no on the bloc, and none of the 15 get in, the Hall of Fame will have major egg on the face, and there will be no Centennial Class.

• Will this class have an asterisk? Something like: * Admitted under different voting standards by the Hall in 2020. That certainly won’t be noted by the Hall of Fame, but it’s the way I’ll think of the Class of 2020.
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He's 100 percent right on this. That is dumb and can create all sorts of unintended consequences.

cyclingwriter2 · Aug 6, 2019

I’m of two minds on who this groups needs to select.
There is merit to cleaning up the mistakes of the past and make sure some of the forgotten guys of the early years get in. However, as someone who follows the Hall, I don’t see a lot of grousing ala the baseball hof had for years where it was “how can you joe tinker in when clearly superior players like George Davis are not.” I can probably point to some early stars who are in the Hall of Fame who shouldn’t be in, but it’s not many and there really aren’t any super cases of players who got shorted from that era that I know of. And I hate to play this card, these guys are dead...why enshrine them when there are deserving living players out there.

As for the living players, there is no way they will catch all of the deserving guys who got missed over the years with this net. However, I would rather see an effort than just keep forgetting those guys.

Della9250 · Aug 6, 2019

cyclingwriter2 said: ↑

I’m of two minds on who this groups needs to select.
There is merit to cleaning up the mistakes of the past and make sure some of the forgotten guys of the early years get in. However, as someone who follows the Hall, I don’t see a lot of grousing ala the baseball hof had for years where it was “how can you joe tinker in when clearly superior players like George Davis are not.” I can probably point to some early stars who are in the Hall of Fame who shouldn’t be in, but it’s not many and there really aren’t any super cases of players who got shorted from that era that I know of. And I hate to play this card, these guys are dead...why enshrine them when there are deserving living players out there.

As for the living players, there is no way they will catch all of the deserving guys who got missed over the years with this net. However, I would rather see an effort than just keep forgetting those guys.
Click to expand...

Baseball actually did this in 1945-46, when Landis put together a Committee to put in 19th century/overlooked guys. They put in 10 guys in 1945 and 11 more in 1946. Only seven of the 21 were alive at their induction and four of those died withon a year

DanOregon · Aug 6, 2019

MileHigh said: ↑

Bowlen absolutely belongs. He helped the league's major growth after coming in in the mid-1980s with his longtime presence in TV negotiations. 300 wins in his first 30 years -- the best mark in the league's history.
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Mile High - obviously you know the Broncos well - I was wondering why I couldn't think of who the Broncos GM was pre-Elway and found they had seven GMs between the Ralston era and Elway taking over - don't think any of them did anything with another franchise after. Was Bowlen involved in the GM stuff? Were Reeeves and later Shanahan defacto GMs during their runs? Just found it kind of odd.

cyclingwriter2 · Aug 6, 2019

Della9250 said: ↑

Baseball actually did this in 1945-46, when Landis put together a Committee to put in 19th century/overlooked guys. They put in 10 guys in 1945 and 11 more in 1946. Only seven of the 21 were alive at their induction and four of those died withon a year
Click to expand...

While not overtly systematic, the Hall did a good job of guiding the veterans committee in the late 1950s and into the 1960s in selecting guys who should have gotten in earlier. But it fell apart because these guys were mainly dead and not drawing fans. Of course, Frisch then got a hold of the committee and loaded up the selections with his buddies.

MileHigh · Aug 6, 2019

DanOregon said: ↑

Mile High - obviously you know the Broncos well - I was wondering why I couldn't think of who the Broncos GM was pre-Elway and found they had seven GMs between the Ralston era and Elway taking over - don't think any of them did anything with another franchise after. Was Bowlen involved in the GM stuff? Were Reeeves and later Shanahan defacto GMs during their runs? Just found it kind of odd.
Click to expand...

John Beake was the GM under Reeves, but Reeves pretty much pulled the trigger. Beake was there through the second title in 1998 when Shanahan gained a lot more power.

Bowlen started going downhill in the latter part of the 2000s, leading to the Shanahan firing and the ill-fated McDaniels tenure. That's when Elway was brought in and it's been great except the past three years, notably with Bowlen out of sight and not running the day-to-day operations.

DanOregon · Aug 7, 2019

Just thought it was odd I'd never even thought about the Broncos GM position before Elway - they put together some good teams.

Della9250 · Sep 12, 2019

Initial candidate list is out. 122 names and 8 first-timers -- Troy Polamalu, Maurice Jones-Drew, Patrick Willis, Justin Smith, John Abraham, Reggie Wayne, Lance Briggs and Josh Cribbs.

122 MODERN ERA NOMINEES FOR THE HALL OF FAMES CLASS OF 2020 | Pro Football Hall of Fame Official Site

Quarterbacks
(7) – Randall Cunningham, Jake Delhomme, Boomer Esiason, Jeff Garcia, Jeff Hostetler, Dave Krieg, Donovan McNabb

Running Backs
(19) – Shaun Alexander, Mike Alstott (FB), Tiki Barber, Earnest Byner, Larry Centers, Corey Dillon, Eddie George, Priest Holmes, Edgerrin James, Daryl Johnston (FB), Thomas Jones, Maurice Jones-Drew, Eric Metcalf (also WR/KR/PR), Lorenzo Neal (FB), Clinton Portis, Fred Taylor, Herschel Walker (also KR), Chris Warren, Ricky Watters

Wide Receivers
(12) – Isaac Bruce, Gary Clark, Donald Driver, Henry Ellard (also PR), Torry Holt, Chad Johnson, Derrick Mason, Muhsin Muhammad, Jimmy Smith, Rod Smith, Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne

Tight Ends
(6) – Dallas Clark, Ben Coates, Keith Jackson, Brent Jones, Jeremy Shockey, Wesley Walls

Offensive Linemen
(19) – Willie Anderson (T), Matt Birk (C), Tony Boselli (T), Lomas Brown (T), Ray Donaldson (C), Alan Faneca (G), Kevin Gogan (G/T), Jordan Gross (T), Chris Hinton (G/T), Kent Hull (C), Steve Hutchinson (G), Lincoln Kennedy (T/G), Olin Kreutz (C), Chris Samuels (T), Jeff Saturday (C), Brian Waters (G), Richmond Webb (T), Erik Williams (T), Steve Wisniewski (G)

Defensive Linemen
(11) – John Abraham (DE also LB), La’Roi Glover (DT/NT), Casey Hampton (DT/NT), Chester McGlockton (DT), Leslie O’Neal (DE), Simeon Rice (DE), Richard Seymour (DT),
Justin Smith (DE), Neil Smith (DE), Greg Townsend (DT/NT), Bryant Young (DT)

Linebackers
(17) – Carl Banks, Cornelius Bennett, Lance Briggs, Tedy Bruschi, James Farrior, London Fletcher, Seth Joyner, Wilber Marshall, Clay Matthews, Willie McGinest (also DE), Sam Mills, Chris Spielman, Takeo Spikes, Darryl Talley, Zach Thomas, Jessie Tuggle, Patrick Willis

Defensive Backs
(15) – Eric Allen (CB), Steve Atwater (S), Ronde Barber (CB/S), LeRoy Butler (S), Nick Collins (S), Merton Hanks (S), Rodney Harrison (S), Albert Lewis (CB), John Lynch (S), Terry McDaniel (CB), Tim McDonald (S), Troy Polamalu (SS), Bob Sanders (S), Troy Vincent (CB), Darren Woodson (S)

Punters/Kickers
(11) – David Akers (K), Gary Anderson (K), Jason Elam (K), Jeff Feagles (P), Jason Hanson (K), Sean Landeta (P), Ryan Longwell (K), Nick Lowery (K), Reggie Roby (P), Rohn Stark (P), Matt Turk (P)

Special Teams
(5) – Johnny Bailey (PR/KR also RB), Josh Cribbs (KR/PR also WR), Mel Gray (PR/KR also WR), Brian Mitchell (KR/PR also RB), Steve Tasker (ST also WR)

Della9250 · Sep 12, 2019

My guess at the 25 semifinalists

Donovan McNabb

Edgerrin James, Herschel Walker

Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, Hines Ward, Reggie Wayne

Tony Boselli, Alan Faneca, Steve Hutchinson, Jeff Saturday, Steve Wisniewski

John Abraham, Simeon Rice, Richard Seymour

Clay Matthews, Willie McGinest, Sam Mills, Zach Thomas, Patrick Willis

Steve Atwater, Rodney Harrison, John Lynch, Troy Polamalu

Steve Tasker

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