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2020 Pro Football Hall of Fame Class

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Della9250, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    Not to quibble, but Billy White Shoes Johnson, too.
     
  2. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    I left out special teams because there are almost none in the Hall and just limited it to offense and defense
     
  3. Bubbler

    Bubbler Well-Known Member

    Drew Pearson being on the 70s All-Decade team is probably an indictment of the All-Decade team more so than Pearson getting snubbed for the Hall.

    He led the league is receiving yards once. He was over 1,000 yards only twice, once after the pass defense rules were changed in 1978. He was an All-Pro three times, which is good, but not HOF-lock great.

    Harold Carmichael was over 1,000 yards four times. (Edit: Thought he was All-Pro, but mis-read it. He was Pro Bowl four times.) He was also remarkably durable. (Though Pearson was too.) For the majority of his career, Carmichael had far less talent around him than Pearson did too, making it that much harder to get those yards.

    I’d vote for Carmichael over Pearson. This is going to sound harsher than I mean it, but Pearson should be on the All-Decade Team Of Being On TV A Lot. Probably part of the reason he made the All-70s team.
     
  4. Liut

    Liut Well-Known Member

    Pretty much agree with every point you made, Bubbler. Particularly the last one.
     
  5. Tweener

    Tweener Well-Known Member

    I read that the viewing party wasn’t his idea. He allowed cameras to come in because he thought they were doing so to capture his reaction to getting in. That sucks.

    I would’ve at least confirmed that I was in before jetting anyone into my home.
     
  6. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    So basically you're discounting the voters of the time, because Pearson got three first-team All-Pros and Carmichael got none and Pearson was first-team all-decade and Carmichael wasn't. Is it possible Pearson's effect on the game went beyond stats? I don't know, but Paul Warfield was the other second-team all-decade pick.

    First team all-pros by Pearson: 3
    First team all-pros by Carmichael, Warfield and Lynn Swann, the other first-team pick, combined: 3

    Art Monk was first-team all-pro once. Same for James Lofton. Same for Steve Largent. Same for Charley Taylor. Same for John Stallworth. Same for Michael Irvin. Same for Charlie Joiner.

    Andre Reed has zero. Tim Brown has zero

    So Pearson is either the most overlooked receiver in history or the most undeserving one
     
  7. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    For all the talk about the Centennial class honoring those from the pre-"modern era" (Super Bowl) - only three of the 20 qualify. I get it - you want emotional induction speeches by the inductees - but man. If anything - the Centennial class seemed focused on choosing people who might not get in otherwise. I doubt Pearson waits too long - the regular committee will probably do a lot of clean-up. Surprised I haven't seen many critical articles about the process - if not those chosen. And as great as those moments with Cowher and Johnson were - I'm guessing the Hall isn't happy that the last image people will think of is Pearson.
     
  8. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    From a player standpoint, even though they didn't go back as far as some people, like Peter King and others, may have liked, they did shine light on a lot of guys who have not had their candidacy heard previously.

    Out of the 20 finalists, only Roger Craig (in 2010), Cliff Harris (in 2004), Randy Gradishar (in 2003 and 2008), Donnie Shell (in 2002), Mac Speedie (in 1970, 1972 and 1983) and Duke Slater (in 1970 and 1971) had been finalists before. In this case, Gradishar and Craig should have been the ones most pissed.

    So the other 14, including Pearson, finally got a real chance. I don't know why he was that pissed. This isn't Bob Kuechenberg, who was a finalist eight straight times from 2002-09 and hasn't gotten a sniff since. This isn't L.C. Greenwood, who was a finalist six times, the first in 1991 and the last in 2006, and hasn't gotten a sniff since. This is not Charley Conerly, who was a finalist seven times, the last since in 1980, and hasn't gotten a sniff. This isn't Marshall Goldberg, who was a Senior Nominee twice -- 30 years apart -- and isn't in (and probably should have been a Centennial finalist).

    Carmichael, Covert, Dillon, Hill, Karras and Sprinkle were the "success stories" of the Centennial Class, if only because they finally got a shot. I would have put in Lavern Dilweg over Carmichael. I would have put Ox Emerson and Al Wistert over Hill and Covert. But I'm a voter that would lean towards the old old-timers. Covert and Carmichael had plenty of opportunities in the 90s and 2000s to get to the Final 15. If they didn't get in here, I'm sure they would be Senior Nominees in the next decade or so. I also have no doubt that Gradishar will be a Senior Nominee in the next five years and Drew Pearson's actions, right or wrong, probably cost him a shot to even be a nominee, let alone get the votes.

    This is how Gradishar reacted right after watching the announcement: “Today was not my best day of 2020. It’s very difficult, very discouraging and very hard to accept when the announcement comes and you don’t hear your name. But tomorrow’s coming. And I believe my day to join the Hall of Fame is also coming. I believe I will go in. It’s all in the Lord’s timing.”

    The only question will be for 2021, are they staying on rotation from 2019, which would mean two players and a contributor. As I pointed out earlier, there were seven living player finalists and four of them got selected. How much you wanna bet that if it is a two-man choice in 2021, those two are Gradishar and Craig? And if they are, Pearson is going to feel really stupid.
     
    cyclingwriter2 likes this.
  9. Bubbler

    Bubbler Well-Known Member

    Yeah. Gradishar is a pretty egregious omission. Craig too, honestly.
     
  10. Bubbler

    Bubbler Well-Known Member

    Yes. I'm discounting voters of the time. That's no way to judge anything through the prism of history.

    Drew Pearson led the NFL in receiving and yards per game in 1977. Dallas also won the Super Bowl. No quibble there.

    He was also All-Pro in 1974 and 1976. Pearson deserved it in 1974 as he was the best NFC receiver statistically and second-best to Cliff Branch overall.

    But in 1976? Not so much. He was 10th in the league in receiving yards, behind three other NFC receivers, and waaaay behind AFC standouts Roger Carr, Charlie Joiner and Branch. Not sure why he was All-Pro that season.

    And apart from that? He was good, but never dominant. Not even on his own team. In 1979, he went over 1,000 yards, but by then, it was far easier to do with a 16-game schedule and with defensive backs hamstrung by the rules changes.

    And, of course, Pearson generally had good talent around him too. A HOF quarterback to throw to him for the majority of his career, good receivers and tight ends like Tony Hill, Billy Jo Dupree, et al. And a running back in Tony Dorsett who wasn't just a run threat, but a receiving one as well. Pearson had it a lot better off than many of his contemporaries did, including Carmichael, who never really had a good complimentary receiver around him, much less HOF-level talent at other offensive positions.

    Listen, I don't think it would be a crime of justice if Pearson got in, but he's not some lock or horrid snub.

    On a personal level? I feel bad for him. I lived in Dallas from 1980-82 when I was young. Next to the then-recently-retired Staubach? Pearson was a ubiquitous presence on the Dallas airwaves and pretty popular. I recall thinking it was cool/foolhardy that he picked up a $100 (or $500, whatever it was) fine for his trademark TD celebration of winging the ball into the crowd.

    That video is hard to watch. I don't begrudge him for being upset, and it shouldn't factor one bit into future consideration, but I don't begrudge the voters either.
     
  11. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    Any of the finalists who played from 1960 on don't fall in either of those categories. If they did they'd already be in or wouldn't have gotten to this point.

    All I'm saying is that Pearson has the bulletpoints that have been the basis for dozens of Hall of Famers -- rings, the All-Decade team, the first-team all-pros -- that I don't think he is as easily dismissed as others -- and considering the direct comparison to Carmichael where he comes out on top of those head-to-head categories, it does raise the question.

    I have no clue how Winston Hill got in. I thought he was the fifth best offensive lineman on the ballot. He has no first-team All-Pro years. He has one second-team selection. The honors in his Hall bio use teams that are not the standard AP designation for All-Pro. He was a second-team All-AFL team, but that doesn't provide precedent because there are still 12 first-teamers who aren't in, including two linemen who have better cases than Hill, and he is just the third second-teamer to be inducted, and two of the offensive linemen have a better case than him.
     
  12. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    And Ill say this about the voters doing future cleanup -- just in this century, starting with the 2001 Class, there are only two full 15-man classes that have been completely inducted. 2011 and 2012 have been taken care of. There are still multiple players from 2003, 04 and 05 still waiting to get in.
     
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