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2020 Baseball Hall of Fame Class

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Della9250, Jul 9, 2019.

Page 4 of 35
  1. cyclingwriter2

    cyclingwriter2 Well-Known Member

    Actually, wasn’t Munson considered a better defensive player than Fisk? Also, despite a shorter career, Munson had a much hire MVP winshare.
     
    cyclingwriter2, Nov 5, 2019
    #37
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I dunno. For the periods their careers overlapped in the 70s, I think Munson was certainly in the class of Fisk. It was a well-worn debate at the time because they were rivals and the two seemed to genuinely dislike each other.

    But if you just look at the period when Munson was alive, there may have been people who thought Fisk was better, others who would have taken Munson, but I don't think many people would have said that Munson wasn't in Fisk's class.
     
    The Big Ragu, Nov 5, 2019
    #38
  3. cyclingwriter2

    cyclingwriter2 Well-Known Member

    There are some strong parallels between Munson and Garvey.
    — both debuted in 1969
    — both won an mvp
    — both did really well in mvp voting even in years they didn’t play well
    — both played in multiple World Series
    — both played on a series winner
    — both won multiple gold gloves
    — both have done poorly in Hall of Fame voting

    Now, Munson’s career was obviously cut short, but he was in decline. Also, Munson was apparently a devoted family man while Garvey wasn’t.

    I think if you asked most fans in the late 1970s if they were future Hall of Famers, I think most would have said yes.
     
    cyclingwriter2, Nov 5, 2019
    #39
  4. MTM

    MTM Well-Known Member

    Do intangibles still play in the vote?

    Garvey was clutch in the postseason, was the best player on a team that went to four World Series, winning one, helped the woe-begotten Padres to their first World Series and held the NL record for consecutive games played.

    Even with that and being a Dodgers fan, he's first ballot Hall of Very, Very Good and not quite Hall of Fame to me.
     
    MTM, Nov 5, 2019
    #40
  5. cyclingwriter2

    cyclingwriter2 Well-Known Member

    Garvey was a player of his time, hit for a good average, a ton of RBIs and decent power. However, through the modern prism, he gets dinged for rarely walking and being fairly slow.

    Also, oddly, despite winning four gold gloves, a lot of people say he was actually a bad fielder.
     
    cyclingwriter2, Nov 5, 2019
    #41
  6. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    By popular opinion at the time, too. Simmons was widely regarded as an average at best defensive catcher.
     
    Starman, Nov 5, 2019
    #42
    Liut likes this.
  7. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    For the baseline of a first baseman Hall of Fame hitter, Garvey doesn't even come close.
     
    Della9250, Nov 5, 2019
    #43
    cyclingwriter2 likes this.
  8. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Garvey succeeded Wes Parker, who was widely regarded as a defensive wizard, as the Dodger first baseman, and was often compared poorly in national teevee games.
     
    Starman, Nov 5, 2019
    #44
    cyclingwriter2 likes this.
  9. MTM

    MTM Well-Known Member

    Plus he was godawful at third base before he moved to first and he's still judged by that.
     
    MTM, Nov 5, 2019
    #45
    cyclingwriter2 likes this.
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Garvey is kind of interesting in that as @Della9250 pointed out, he doesn't have the compiled or averaged out numbers of a Hall of Fame first baseman. But there was a 6 or 7 year period, where I think a lot of people thought they were watching a Hall of Famer. Which is what makes him interesting. When you can stay among the very best players for a period like that -- which is more than just a 1 or 2 year fluke -- your candidacy deserves serious discussion.

    Yeah, about Garvey never walking. I think it was because he made getting 200 hits into such a megagoal. Also, he was a very good first baseman. He just didn't have a very good arm, which was why they had moved him from third, as @MTM pointed out.

    Garvey stayed on the ballot for 15 years and never got above 42.6 percent. I think that is a little lower than he deserved (even if I don't think he belongs), but the paternity suits and the perceived phoniness and the fact that he rubbed some people wrong probably cost him some votes.
     
    The Big Ragu, Nov 5, 2019
    #46
    cyclingwriter2 likes this.
  11. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Yeah, between unfavorable comparisons to Wes Parker, the blowup of his former good guy image with the high school sweetheart wife, and his offensive strengths fading in context of modern analytics/ OBP- driven thinking, Garvey's career has retrospectively taken on the aura of a Los Angeles media creation.
     
    Starman, Nov 5, 2019
    #47
    cyclingwriter2 likes this.
  12. Twirling Time

    Twirling Time Well-Known Member

    Appropos of nothing, I remember reading an SI article on Simmons ca. 1979-ish that quoted somebody calling him a "long-haired Fa88ot."
     
    Twirling Time, Nov 5, 2019
    #48
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