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2020 Baseball Hall of Fame Class

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Della9250, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I disagree with the premise of that tweet. Scott Boros would be doing something else for a living if Marvin Miller hadn't done what he did with organizing the players. Boros does not do exactly the same thing that Marvin Miller did.

    When Miller began as the executive director of the MLBPA, the minimum salary in baseball was $7K and there was a reserve clause in place in contracts that took away any ability to shop yourself to other teams. That likely would have changed with or without Marvin Miller, but it certainly changed way more quickly with him, and to serious financial benefit for MLB players. Miller was an absolute genius at getting the owners to agree to small concessions without seeing his grand plan, which he then used to extract much bigger concessions that now have the players wielding enough leverage to realize all of their worth.

    I am not taking anything away from Scott Boros, he seems like a tough negotiator and he is really good at what he does. But the amount of leverage he has representing Gerritt Cole in 2019 makes his job downright easy in comparison to the leverage that Marvin Miller was working with in 1968. What Miller was able to do with the situation at the time was masterful.
     
  2. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    You don’t have to love him to respect and understand his importance, unless you are a Republican.

    but it does seem love has a lot to do with admittance in the HOF rather than serious credentials. Otherwise Bud Selig and Harold Baines would have watched Miller go to Cooperstown
     
  3. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Miller was always quick to point out that the advances in contract conditions for players were due not only to any legal or strategic brilliance on his own part (although there certainly was some of that), but to utter stupidity and arrogance on the part of the owners.
    The owners wanted to perpetuate the reserve clause system which was truly comparable to indentured servitude, and rather that negotiate some kind of middle ground solution (which the union had proposed) they rolled the dice that the courts would uphold the reserve clause, and were caught by complete surprise when it was chucked out.

    In fact the arbitration system which
    is now the great bane of baseball owners was instituted at their own insistence. They were so sure they had the arbitrators completely in their pockets it blew up in their faces like exploding cigars when they started losing the cases -- after the fact, the arbitrators said the owners' arbitration proposals were usually so ridiculous the decisions were laughers.

    Then each round of successive decisions set the baseline for the next round, and the rocket powered escalation of salaries was off.

    And of course the later collusion episodes only compounded the problem.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
    sgreenwell and maumann like this.
  4. qtlaw

    qtlaw Well-Known Member

    It’s a great day for workers now that Miller is in HOF.

    The Owners hate him but that only makes sense, he took from them.
     
  5. cyclingwriter2

    cyclingwriter2 Well-Known Member

    It was mentioned earlier in this thread, but in terms of oddest trades in history, does anything come close to Simmons, Fingers and Vuckovich for Green,Lapoint, Lezcano and Sorensen? Two Hall of Famers, and a Cy Young winner for a bunch of middling players yet the team with the middling players beat the team with the stars in the World Series two years later? To be fair lezcano and Sorensen were used in trades to get ozzie smith and Lonnie Smith, a Hall of Famer and a guy who would finish second in the MVP race in 1982, but...
     
  6. Jake from State Farm

    Jake from State Farm Well-Known Member

    The stupidest thing about arbitration is that it had to be one side or the other and the arbitrator could not choose a compromise
     
  7. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    But that was the point - to get the player and team to agree to a compromise to avoid arbitration.
     
  8. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    The Garry Templeton-Ozzie Smith trade is mindblowing in how it worked out.

    1982: Garry Templeton for Ozzie Smith

    EDIT: BTW, how about that 1979 Cards lineup: Simmons, Hernandez, Templeton, Lou Brock, George Hendricks, with nice contributions from Oberkfell and Jerry Mumphrey and, uh, Mike Tyson. Could only manage third behind Bucs and Expos.

    1979 St. Louis Cardinals Statistics | Baseball-Reference.com
     
    cyclingwriter2 likes this.
  9. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

  10. Della9250

    Della9250 Well-Known Member

    Could have picked anyone else and been a better choice

     
  11. goalmouth

    goalmouth Well-Known Member

    "And at the end of two, White Sox 3, Bad Guys nothing."
     
  12. goalmouth

    goalmouth Well-Known Member

    A power-short team, among other flaws, where Simmons led with 26 HR. Also, the staff lacked a true ace.
     
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