2017 Baseball Hall of Fame Ballot

Bagwell and Guerrero are statistically very similar so, while I wouldn't vote for him at this moment, it wouldn't chafe me much if he got elected.

I'm not going to bother going down the rabbit hole with him, but I'll say this - his denial of using PEDs, while simultaneously normalizing and condoning nameless others who have used does not sound to me like someone who has never used PEDs.

 

As I said, no valid evidence. That Bagwell has been kept out this long by suspicion with no real proof is a disgrace.

 

You also disputed the validity of Ryan Braun's positive drug test. I am openly skeptical of players with even the faintest whiff of PED use around them. That's their fault, not mine.

“In my case, the temptation is always there. One thing I know is I can go home after my career is over and say I did it myself. For me, that’s what I take. Now let me tell you, if I’m on the bubble, the amount of money that’s in the game, I probably would already have a needle in my butt. There’s too much money out there. If it does make you better, why wouldn’t you at least give it a shot to hang on? All you have to do is have one big year. Next thing you know you’re around for five or six more.”

“I think that’s a subject nobody wants to talk about. It is a touchy one. We’re going to find out. That will come up in those meetings in the offseason: ‘What do you guys want to do? You guys want to have testing?’ Once you’re tested for that, you’ll be tested for everything."

“I don’t know what the right answer is. Would it be nice to have a clean, free world out there? Yeah, in anything. In reality, probably not. You see the same in football and all the other sports. They mask it somehow. It’s funny how that is. There’s your underlying story, what’s going on (in other sports)? The guys that are real good, somehow they’re not going to get caught.”

“In a lot of people’s minds, the rewards outweigh the risks. That’s each person’s decision. You have to make that choice and you have to live with the repercussions. If you feel like it’s worth it, then it’s worth it to you. Most don’t think it’s worth it.”

“Sometimes I don’t blame them. Yeah, it might be kind of risky but they still have a family to feed. That’s the big question. You have to go with yourself and determine what’s more important to you.”

- Jeff Bagwell

 

You shouldn't vote for anybody from that era then.

 

Braun eventually admitted he was guilty. (Not that he had any choice at that point.) There is clear evidence that he used. Bagwell has made no admission of guilt and he has not tested positive. He went through his entire career and years after retirement and the case made against him is primarily guilt by association.

Your evidence against Bagwell is that he actually gave a somewhat thoughtful and sympathetic answer rather than just condemning the guilty? Seriously?

 

Those kinds of statements are why I hope people vote for Bagwell, Clemens, etc.

 

Hoffman pitched in a more save-friendly time. He should be in, too, but he has more time on the ballot.

 

Jeff Bagwell
Vladimir Guerrero
Trevor Hoffman
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling

 

Nope, not presented as evidence. I don't need to make a case. I'm not even trying to convince anyone. Hell, I didn't even bring him up by name. But what you describe as sympathetic sounds more to me like a guy who has probably used and is laying out all the reasons one might do so.

"That will come up in those meetings in the offseason: ‘What do you guys want to do? You guys want to have testing?’ Once you’re tested for that, you’ll be tested for everything." Those don't sound to me like the words of someone who has never used anything.

As I said, it wouldn't bug me too much if he got elected, particularly because the evidence is scant - at best. But since I'm a small hall guy and I am highly skeptical of pretty much all players of that era who have even the faintest whiff of PED use around them, he wouldn't get my non-existent vote.

 

Those are all good choices, even the ones I left out on mine. Tough arguments on some of them (Kent, Mussina) in which I come down on the no side, but without total conviction.

 

I have very little doubt Bagwell used. So did a large percentage of others who don't have a whiff of PED use.

Why pick and choose? The era was filthy, nobody has a clue who was and was not using, just judge them by what they did in that era.

 

I generally fall on the side of anyone actually caught cheating never gets in. Period. Full stop. They cheated, they got caught, they don't deserve the honor.

The ones who don't have a whiff of PED use that get in - Well, there's nothing that can be done about that. Some guys will definitely slip in. But - and I think I've used this analogy before - just because you can't catch every thief, doesn't mean that you let go the ones you do catch.

I left Bagwell out of my original post mostly because I didn't realize how statistically similar he was to Vlad. I just went off the top of my head in choosing Hoffman and Guerrero.

OOP brought Bagwell into the conversation by mentioning the PED suspicions.