2012 Baseball HOF ballot

Guy_Incognito · Nov 30, 2011

Jeff Bagwell,
Barry Larkin,
Edgar Martinez,
Tim Raines,
Alan Trammell

The Bernie case is not nearly as outrageous as many of you are making it out to be.

outofplace · Nov 30, 2011

MankyJimy said:

OOP: Henderson and Raines were both great. Raines is just more of the style of player I prefer. I look at his numbers and I think those are the type of stats Jeter would have put up if he was 15 years younger and played in the 80's.

I think Raines might have been a little overlooked in his heyday playing in Montreal. Rickey spent his prime years in NY, Oakland in the late 80s, then Toronto in '93.

I also look at the contrast between them in the late 90s: Raines was a leader and valuable part of the Yankee dynasty...Rickey was all about Rickey and playing cards in the clubhouse during the game.
Click to expand...

Great. Now come back when you actually have a worthwhile argument to make.

MankyJimy · Nov 30, 2011

Guy_Incognito said:

Jeff Bagwell,
Barry Larkin,
Edgar Martinez,
Tim Raines,
Alan Trammell

The Bernie case is not nearly as outrageous as many of you are making it out to be.
Click to expand...

The Bernie case:

Four World Championships
Five Gold Gloves
Eight Straight Seasons Batting Over .300 (averaged .321 from 1995-2002)

He was a beast in the playoffs - 22 homers and 80 RBIs.

There have never been any steroids rumors about him either. Put him on the McGwire training plan and he would rival Mantle for greatest Yankee center fielder.

MankyJimy · Nov 30, 2011

outofplace said:

MankyJimy said:

OOP: Henderson and Raines were both great. Raines is just more of the style of player I prefer. I look at his numbers and I think those are the type of stats Jeter would have put up if he was 15 years younger and played in the 80's.

I think Raines might have been a little overlooked in his heyday playing in Montreal. Rickey spent his prime years in NY, Oakland in the late 80s, then Toronto in '93.

I also look at the contrast between them in the late 90s: Raines was a leader and valuable part of the Yankee dynasty...Rickey was all about Rickey and playing cards in the clubhouse during the game.
Click to expand...

Great. Now come back when you actually have a worthwhile argument to make.
Click to expand...

That was my argument. Just because Rickey hung on for a few hundred more games (usually batting in the .230s in the steroid era!) doesn't make him a better player than Raines.

Elliotte Friedman · Dec 1, 2011

Bagwell -- I think oop's argument is perfect
Morris -- buckweaver destroys him every year with a convincing argument, but I have a soft spot for the guy
Raines

Also one of those who believes Williams deserves more serious consideration.

outofplace · Dec 1, 2011

MankyJimy said:

outofplace said:

MankyJimy said:

OOP: Henderson and Raines were both great. Raines is just more of the style of player I prefer. I look at his numbers and I think those are the type of stats Jeter would have put up if he was 15 years younger and played in the 80's.

I think Raines might have been a little overlooked in his heyday playing in Montreal. Rickey spent his prime years in NY, Oakland in the late 80s, then Toronto in '93.

I also look at the contrast between them in the late 90s: Raines was a leader and valuable part of the Yankee dynasty...Rickey was all about Rickey and playing cards in the clubhouse during the game.
Click to expand...

Great. Now come back when you actually have a worthwhile argument to make.
Click to expand...

That was my argument. Just because Rickey hung on for a few hundred more games (usually batting in the .230s in the steroid era!) doesn't make him a better player than Raines.
Click to expand...

No, the fact that he was a much better player when both were in their primes does that.

MankyJimy · Dec 1, 2011

outofplace said:

MankyJimy said:

outofplace said:

MankyJimy said:

OOP: Henderson and Raines were both great. Raines is just more of the style of player I prefer. I look at his numbers and I think those are the type of stats Jeter would have put up if he was 15 years younger and played in the 80's.

I think Raines might have been a little overlooked in his heyday playing in Montreal. Rickey spent his prime years in NY, Oakland in the late 80s, then Toronto in '93.

I also look at the contrast between them in the late 90s: Raines was a leader and valuable part of the Yankee dynasty...Rickey was all about Rickey and playing cards in the clubhouse during the game.
Click to expand...

Great. Now come back when you actually have a worthwhile argument to make.
Click to expand...

That was my argument. Just because Rickey hung on for a few hundred more games (usually batting in the .230s in the steroid era!) doesn't make him a better player than Raines.
Click to expand...

No, the fact that he was a much better player when both were in their primes does that.
Click to expand...

While we're on the subject of Hall of Famers, what chance does David Cone have of getting in this year?

buckweaver · Dec 1, 2011

Bagwell.
Larkin.

Raines. No-brainer.

Before Henderson came along and revolutionized the leadoff position (power plus speed plus unflinching bat control and discipline equals dominance), consensus said the greatest top-of-the-order hitter was Lou Brock, the legendary Cardinals speedster. When Brock was eligible for enshrinement in 1985, there was little debate. He was elected with 79.75 percent of the vote -- and rightfully so. Brock was certainly Hall of Fame worthy.

Raines was better than Brock.
— Jeff Pearlman

http://raines30.com/
Click to expand...

No Morris. He'll always have Game 7. But no Hall. (Hi, Elliotte!)

Machine Head · Dec 1, 2011

buckweaver said:

Bagwell.
Larkin.

Raines. No-brainer.

Before Henderson came along and revolutionized the leadoff position (power plus speed plus unflinching bat control and discipline equals dominance), consensus said the greatest top-of-the-order hitter was Lou Brock, the legendary Cardinals speedster. When Brock was eligible for enshrinement in 1985, there was little debate. He was elected with 79.75 percent of the vote -- and rightfully so. Brock was certainly Hall of Fame worthy.

Raines was better than Brock.
— Jeff Pearlman

http://raines30.com/
Click to expand...

No Morris. He'll always have Game 7. But no Hall. (Hi, Elliotte!)
Click to expand...

Yes, he will 8)

joe · Dec 1, 2011

Armchair_QB said:

Della9250 said:

2013: Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Craig Biggio, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza
2014: Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina, Frank Thomas
2015: Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, John Smoltz
Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Shit, never thought I'd agree with AQB on anything baseball-related, but that would be my first-ballot guess. Of the others, I see Piazza, Thomas and Pedro getting in. The Big Schill has a case, but one bloody sock does not a hall of famer make.

HanSenSE · Dec 1, 2011

Always been surprised Smith doesn't get more support.

Mizzougrad96 · Dec 1, 2011

Pedro Martinez will soar in on the first ballot.

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2012 Baseball HOF ballot

Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

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MankyJimy Active Member

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Elliotte Friedman Moderator Staff Member

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2012 Baseball HOF ballot

Guy_Incognito Well-Known Member

outofplace Well-Known Member

MankyJimy Active Member

MankyJimy Active Member

Elliotte Friedman Moderator Staff Member

outofplace Well-Known Member

MankyJimy Active Member

buckweaver Active Member

Machine Head Well-Known Member

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