2008 AL/NL Manager of the Year

Aaron Miles, Felipe Lopez, Troy Glaus, Ceasar Izturis, Brendan Ryan, Adam Kennedy (you did ask what infielders for the Cardinals we could name. I got those off the top of my head.) Glaus in particular isn't exactly anonymous for anybody who pays attention.

Regarding your comment about the Astros' offense, Houston is ninth in the National League in runs scored. The Cardinals are fourth.

The Astros climbed back into the race despite the loss of Carlos Lee, who was having an MVP-type season. If they make the playoffs, I think you have to give it to Cecil Cooper. If they come close, I think you still have to consider him.

Edit: Good point, Oz. I admit, I was among those who didn't understand the move at the time.

 

All of them journeymen except Glaus (who's always hurt). I could name them, too, but my point stands. Cooper's done a great job but he's also had a dynamite Oswalt during their run while St. Louis has been without Carpenter, Wainwright's been hurt and their closer imploded in May. I'm not a big LaRussa guy but you can't argue what he's done this year with a team everybody picked to finish below .500 before the season started. Houston was supposed to be good this season, they just stopped underachieving.

LaRussa won't win it, but he probably should.

 

Houston was supposed to be good? Where did you see that?

Houston was supposed to be devoid of pitching with the exception of Oswalt and maybe Valverde. Yes, Oswalt has picked it up, but at the same time the Astros lost one of their two standout hitters. Then again, you tried to say Houston has a better offense than St. Louis does, even though the Cardinals have scored a lot more runs.

Glaus is always hurt? In past seasons, yes. This year, he has 502 at-bats and is on pace for 560.

Perhaps you should check your work before you hit post next time.

What I don't get is so many people insisting Pinella is a clear choice for the award. Sure, the Cubs have battled some injuries. But they are doing what they were supposed to do. I could see Pinella getting it, but he is far from a sure thing.

 

The Cubs weren't expected to be the best team in the league for virtually the entire season, but they have been. I'd say that's more impressive than LaRussa or Cooper leading their teams to pretty good seasons and third or fourth place, which is all they've done at this point. If the Astros or Cards actually made it to the playoffs I'd give them stronger consideration, but it probably still wouldn't be enough to move either guy past Piniella if the Cubs finish with the best record in the NL.

 

Maybe good was too strong a word. Houston was picked third in the division by most analysts (that's where I had them), and that's where they are. Both teams had pitching questions going in. St. Louis also had hitting questions. That they are fourth in offense certainly wasn't expected. My point on Glaus was that counting on him before the season started wasn't exactly recommended. I don't need to check my work for that.

I just think LaRussa should be considered.

I don't even like the Cards, why am I defending them again?

Agree on Piniella OOP. He will win the award, but wasn't Chicago supposed to win the division? Weren't they supposed to be the best team in NL? Isn't it going exactly to plan?

BTW, Is manager of the year only for teams that make the playoffs? I've never heard of that rule.

 

You don't have to make the playoffs, but you do have to do more than finish ahead of Cincinnati and Pittsburgh. If you had said before the season that the Astros and Cards would finish 3rd and 4th in the Central, most people would have said that's about right. Cooper and LaRussa deserve consideration, but no first-place votes.

 

Regarding Glaus, we are talking about this season's performance, which is really what we should be looking at for manager of the year. Glaus has been relatively healthy, which is one reason the Cards stayed in it so long.

Edit: broadway joe, the season isn't over yet, so I wouldn't say Houston is out of the playoff race just yet. And the Astros are only three games out of the Wild Card. They are 13 games over .500, so they have done more than "finish ahead of Cincinnati and Pittsburgh."

 

Which is why I said a few posts above that if Houston or St. Louis actually made the playoffs, LaRussa and Cooper would merit stronger consideration. As of right now, I don't think either team has so greatly exceeded expectations that either guy should be considered ahead of Piniella. That's particularly true of Houston, which despite having two of the best hitters in the league was mediocre all season until this nice little run at the end that's probably going to be too little too late. I don't see how that's enough to put Cooper ahead of a manager who's had his team at the top of the entire league all year.

 

The Cubs are doing exactly what was expected of them. The Astros were not expected to be in contention for a playoff spot, and here they even though Carlos Lee has already been out a month.

 

Joe, I don't know that Piniella has "exceeded" expectations, either. They're the defending Central champs -- not really unexpected at all that they might repeat in a notoriously weak division. Also, the NL seems particularly down this year so their having the best record in the league doesn't seem as dominant an accomplishment as it normally would.

That said, we'll see what happens down the stretch. If Cooper's Astros can somehow make a Rockies-esque run to get to the playoffs, I think he's the guy. Him or Jerry Manuel.

 

Gardy definitely would/should win if it weren't for the Rays. Sorry Zeke.

In the NL, I don't know that anybody's head and shoulders above anybody else. Gotta wait for the last few weeks to play out.

 

Are people really trying to say that everyone expected the Cubs to be clearly the best team in the National League? I'm calling bullshit on that. Winning the division, yes, (although there were certainly those who thought the Brewers would win.) But as far as best record in the league, the Mets and Diamondbacks were at least as highly regarded. Wasn't it supposed to be Webb, Haren and all that young talent? Didn't the Mets have Santana and that huge payroll? To say that everybody knew the Cubs would dominate the league to this extent is nonsense.