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2007 Brady vs. 2011 Rodgers: Who's better?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by MisterCreosote, Dec 1, 2011.

  1. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    Well, OOP, I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that certainly Ben put together a hell of an amazing drive that, in my estimation was only slightly behind the Giants'.

    I offered several concrete and debatable reasons for my belief, while acknowledging that the Giants fan in me colors my perception in the same way your love for the Steelers colors yours.

    Unfortunately, your points are no better than laughable. Do you really think for a second that Jerry Reese or a single Giants fan regrets what they gave up to get Eli? How many Super Bowls have Philip Rivers, Shawne Merriman and Nate Kaeding (the three players SD acquired and drafted in the trade) won? Manning has been worth every bit of what they gave up to get him and to think otherwise is absurd.

    I think it's pretty obvious who is letting the fanboi shine through right now. Please feel free to come back with any kind of an argument that involves facts, astute analysis or anything beyond "Eli is lucky, Big Ben ROOLLLLLZZZZZ!!!!!!"

    Honestly, I'm open to the debate, but you've gotta do better than saying the Cardinals were as good as the Patriots.
     
  2. joe king

    joe king Active Member

    Not even close. Marino was rarely hit anyway, so the QB protection rules wouldn't have made much of a difference. And the more recent assists to receivers have not been anywhere near that drastic.
     
  3. JC

    JC Well-Known Member

    Holy Fuck, I agree with OOP and Devil 93 in the same thread.

    Joe King, you are completely out to lunch on this.

    Pern, Eli was impressive as hell in that final drive but c'mon, the Tyree play wasn't 95% luck?
     
  4. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    And once again, you go after me and misrepresent my argument because you know I'm right. Manning threw up a prayer and it was answered. Pure luck. Your inner fanboy just let you see it.

    Your argument about the Manning trade is even more ridiculous. The Giants gave up Rivers and all of those players for Manning, who until this season was clearly the worst of the three quarterbacks taken in that draft.

    I know. I can hear your reply already. "But...but...Eli won a Super Bowl!" Never mind that it was the defense than won the Giants that Super Bowl. Well, that and a lucky pass to Tyree. Your "concrete" argument centers around your fanboyish delusion that it was somehow a good throw on Manning's part.

    By the way, I'm not the one showing his true inner fanboy by referring to his team's quarterback by his first name. That would be you. I don't refer to Roethlisberger as Big Ben and I never said that he rules anything. I pointed out that he executed on the drive against the Cardinals while Eli simply threw up a prayer for a huge chunk of his drive against the Patriots.

    Roethlisberger also sucked in Super Bowl XL and failed with the game on the line last season. But the Giants still would have been better off taking him and holding on to their draft picks. I'm sorry the truth bothers you so much.
     
  5. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    I also referred to the Steelers QB as Ben for the most part. Am I a fanboy of him too, or is it just easier to type Ben and Eli on this stupid iPad keyboard? Nice try.

    And there's absolutely no way I'd rather have those three San Diego players than Eli. I'm sure you'd rather have Ben than Rivers, who is a hot-headed prima Donna who will never win anything, too. There has not been a day in Eli's career that I have thought Reese made a mistake. And since the goal in the NFL is to win the Super Bowl, it's pretty hard to say Reese made a mistake by drafting a Super Bowl MVP (though I will concede I thought Tuck deserved it).

    I never actually said it was a good throw, either. It was too high. But considering the duress he was under, it was a great play to escape and find Tyree and it was an amazing play by Tyree to catch it. You want to call it luck, fine, whatever. Even if he didn't make that play, he had another down.

    That's about all I have to say unless you care to address the concrete arguments I made that A)Eli made three big third down plays compared to one by Ben, B) Eli had more pressure because he needed four points, Ben needed 3 and C) Eli did it against a much tougher defense.

    There's nothing fanboyish about any of those arguments. Saying the Patriots defense was "every bit as bad as Cardinals defense" is the height of fanboyish absurdity. Let me know if you have anything stronger than saying the entire drive was LUCKYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!
     
  6. three_bags_full

    three_bags_full Well-Known Member

  7. dreunc1542

    dreunc1542 Active Member

    Stop quoting the full post.
     
  8. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    The play that made that drive happen was lucky. It's that simple. The fact that you continue to argue that the throw was anything but luck is fanboyish.

    The Cardinals played like crap for half of that season, then put it together late. Sorry, but the team that put together those weak numbers during the regular season was not the same as the one that played in the playoffs. I will concede that the Patriots' defense overall was better, but not nearly by as much as you think.

    The pressure only matters when the teams got close. Roethlisberger still had to drive from deep in his end, even farther when one of his linemen took a holding penalty before the drive could even get started.

    Regarding the trade, the Giants could have had Roethlisberger and the draft picks. If you maintain that getting Manning was better, well, you must have been spending too much time with this guy.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    No, that Cardinals defense was pretty bad. In the last seven games they allowed less than 21 points one time, and they had games allowing 47, 35 and then 27 in the Super Bowl. The '07 Patriots in theirnlast seven games allowed 21 points once. The defenses weren't even close to comparable.

    I agree though that giving Eli credit for Tyree's catch is just a little ridiculous.
     
  10. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    And anyone who continues to argue that Cardinals team could have even sniffed the Patriots' jocks must be spending too much time with this dude:
    [​IMG]

    Whoop de do, I can also post pictures of jackasses who have nothing to do with the conversation.

    As for the trade, I was specifically referring to having Manning over Rivers Merriman and Kaeding. Clearly the Giants weren't high on Ben and given his off-field issues, I'm sure the Maras are very happy to have Manning instead.

    Anyway, feel free to address any of the three arguments I raised as reasons Manning engineered the better drive (and let me reiterate what I originally said, that they are both amazing drives).

    You so far have offered nothing beyond the Giants getting lucky on one play of a 12-play, 83-yard drive.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2014
  11. bigpern23

    bigpern23 Well-Known Member

    Just for clarity's sake, I never gave Manning credit for Tyree's amazing play. In fact, I noted that the throw was too high.

    My only point regarding that play was that Manning made a great escape (frankly, it's the type of play Ben makes often because he's so big and tough to bring down), didn't panic and found an open receiver. Tyree did the rest.

    I'm just saying it's not lucky in the manner of a Franco Harris, who was nowhere near where the ball was intended and fortunately for the Steelers, it bounced right to him.

    Manning saw a receiver, made a throw that was too high and the receiver made a great play to haul it in. That, to me isn't luck. It was a receiver making a great play.
     
  12. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    I can buy that, bigpern. Or bighorn as my iPad wanted to call you.
     
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