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1919 White Sox documents to be sold

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by writing irish, Nov 26, 2007.

  1. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    Even then, Starman, you'd be hard-pressed to draw a strong conclusions. The PBP account in the NYT differs greatly from the ChiTrib which differs greatly from the Cincy Post which differs greatly from the Boston Globe which differs greatly from the WaPo which differs greatly from the Atlanta Constitution. They can't even get it straight whether Dutch Ruether's triple was down the LF line or to left-center or to deep center or to deep right-center. How can you prove anything from that?
     
  2. lantaur

    lantaur Well-Known Member

    Agreed. But those two weren't under suspicion for throwing games, so we can chalk those up to having bad series. We just don't know if Jackson could have had a better series or was holding back in certain situations.
     
  3. Tom Petty

    Tom Petty Guest

    he hit .375. i don't see how you assume he's guilty.
     
  4. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    a) We know he took money, $5,000 by all accounts.
    b) We don't know if he played 100 percent, or "was holding back in certain situations."
    c) We do know he was the best hitter in the Series (his 12 hits was a WS record until Bobby Richardson got 13 in 1964.)
    d) We also know that two of his teammates that were in on the fix, Risberg and Gandil, were among the worst hitters in the Series.
    e) We also know that two of his teammates that were NOT in on the fix, Schalk and Collins, were among the worst hitters in the Series.
    f) The play-by-play accounts are all different -- they vary depending on which paper you read.

    You point to Retrosheet's account and say, "It looks like a guy who helped fix games to me." I don't see how you can draw that conclusion, not from the PBP anyway. Because I can show you a half-dozen accounts that agree with Retrosheet's, and a half-dozen more that don't.

    We just don't know. Again, I say ... it's complicated.
     
  5. lantaur

    lantaur Well-Known Member

    Buck - You're right, we'll never know. Makes for some interesting conversation, though. I guess Jackson loses the benefit of the doubt because he took money in the same vein that Buck Weaver gains it.
     
  6. micropolitan guy

    micropolitan guy Well-Known Member

    I think A-Rod should throw a series so he can hit .375.
     
  7. Bubbler

    Bubbler Well-Known Member

    I think everyone was innocent except Buck Weaver. :D :D
     
  8. In Exile

    In Exile Member

    Ban Johnson wanted Ruppert out badly and tried to get Giants owner Charles Stoneham to kick the Yankees out of the Polo Grounds, hoping that would force Ruppert to sell. In exchange, Johnson offered to allow Giants owner Charles Stoneham to hand pick the next owner of the Yankees, which would have effectively turned the Yankees into the Giants toadies.
     
  9. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    Perhaps Stoneham would have picked out such great owners as Frank Farrell and Big Bill Devery, the two Tammany Hall thugs that Ban Johnson persuaded to buy the Yankees when the AL was trying to establish itself in New York two decades before. They ran the team into the ground and sold to Ruppert/Huston for a pittance. Ban Johnson is lucky he wasn't able to force out Ruppert and turn the Yankees into "Giants toadies." The American League would have turned into "Giants toadies," as well.
     
  10. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    Well, Ban Johnson wasn't really around long enough to see the aftermath of the whole brouhaha. As an indirect result of his feud with Comiskey and the establishment of the comissioner system, Johnson was forced out in 1927, just as the Yankees were becoming the most dominant franchise in American sports history.
     
  11. If the Red Sox were still winning, this never would have happened.
    (Ducking)
     
  12. Bubbler

    Bubbler Well-Known Member

    If the original Brewers had not moved to St. Louis and become the Browns ... it still would have happened.
     
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